Those Brembos, fixed caliper? Or not? [Patent inside!]

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

I'm not disagreeing with you. But depending on how thick and wide rotors are, cross drilling really makes a difference in the weight. Sure it comes down to an aesthetic choice for most people but it does save on unsprung weight. Not that I recommend them either, but I do think the whole "throw them under the bus, they are useless" attitude is a bit extreme.

I tried some more just now to find some weights. Surprisingly difficult to do, but what I found was that same design and size rotors in 11"+ diameter for the same manufacturer cross drilled vs blank had a weight difference of 0.0lbs to .1KG.. obviously the 0.0 difference can't be accurate, so maybe that was within .1lb when rounded.. I have no idea.

Does cross drilling reduce a minor amount of unsprung weight? Let's say a 13lb rotor and you save even .5lbs (which is really way more than I've seen so far) that's a whole 3.8% savings. Do you think that will be noticable? I mean really noticable? Considering that some testing has even found heavy wheels to be faster in laptimes than lightweight wheels (although I consider the testing that I've seen on that to be imperfect - search around for info on it but it was comparing cast to lightwight versions of the same wheels, still cast though generating a strength issue that likely doesn't exist in forged wheels) I'd venture a guess that it wouldn't be noticable one way or the other.

What would be noticable is how many cracks you'll get racing on cross drilled rotors, the shortened rotor and pad life and the reduced fade resistance on track as everything starts to overheat.

Useless? Again, as a race car part (where this conversation started), absolutely IMO. As a street car part it's fine and IMO a matter of personal preference like wheels are. I don't think they look that cool anymore (I admit that I used to, before I started tracking my cars and researching them as a performance part) but I can understand the visual design preference.

My entire focus on this thread has been related to the question of using them on a race car. I couldn't care less what rotors people use on their street cars but we shouldn't let false (and potentially dangerous) information circulate about their use in racing/track events.

[LionZoo]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

Formula one cars do not use the typical braking system.

WRC cars basically have typical braking systems on steroids. They aren't cross-drilled. They do have small half moon slots.

[oneday]

The only people I suggest drilled rotors to are hard parkers...with on exception....karters...


These rotors are from a friend of mine's son's Formula Junior kart. The kid is a national champion(and will be in Grand Am or ALMS in the not to distant future) so he knows a thing or two and is fast...he receently swapped his brake rotor (yes there is only one rotor)...Keep in mind the motor makes 1.5hp (karts top speed is about 50mph)...The rotor on the left weighs in at 3.6lbs....the one on the right is .5lbs. The complete brake system including caliper weighs in at 1.6lbs versus the larger caliper and rotor's combined weight of 7lbs.

Karts need so little brake that surface area is a non issue.

As LionZoo and Dave-ROR have so accurately stated when it comes to race cars: Solid > Slotted > Drilled.

[Slide]

Well looks like I should take bck what I said.

Thanks for the info

[Type[R]+]

Yep, drilled brakes are so shit, they use them on the Lexus LFA, Corvette ZR1, Lamborghini Aventador, SLR Mclaren..... I could go on and on and on....

[oneday]

Originally Posted by Type[R]+

Yep, drilled brakes are so shit, they use them on the Lexus LFA,

Street car.

Originally Posted by Type[R]+

Corvette ZR1,

Street car.

Originally Posted by Type[R]+

Lamborghini Aventador,

Um, yep, street car.

Originally Posted by Type[R]+

SLR Mclaren

Care to take a guess at what my answer to this is? If you said "street car" you get an extra 5 internet points.
Most of the above applications don't use cast iron rotors, they use carbon discs...so not exactly apples to apples. But, most race cars do not use carbon discs they use cast iron to help keep costs down and durability up.


So...what kind of rotors are on this?











If you said "drilled" you'd be wrong.

(it's the sister car...I took both pictures, the silver wheels are #58, the blacks #59).

Here's another one for you to try....

[Slide]

I said slotted for both how many internet points do I get?

[oneday]

I'll give you 4 but with the current exchange rate from AUT to the US, I think you end up owning me 1.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Type[R]+

Yep, drilled brakes are so shit, they use them on the Lexus LFA, Corvette ZR1, Lamborghini Aventador, SLR Mclaren..... I could go on and on and on....

I don't understand. Is it really that hard of a concept to grasp that this entire conversation is about RACE CAR brakes not STREET CAR brakes? It's been explained more than once already why those cars have such rotors from the factory and why the race car variants (professional, factory, independant, etc - assuming they are used as race cars) use blanks, or slotted, but never drilled.

I can only assume that you continue to avoid posting any facts relevant to the conversation because you know there aren't any and don't want to admit that you are wrong. :shrug:

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I don't understand. Is it really that hard of a concept to grasp that this entire conversation is about RACE CAR brakes not STREET CAR brakes? It's been explained more than once already why those cars have such rotors from the factory and why the race car variants (professional, factory, independant, etc - assuming they are used as race cars) use blanks, or slotted, but never drilled.

I can only assume that you continue to avoid posting any facts relevant to the conversation because you know there aren't any and don't want to admit that you are wrong. :shrug:

You have to admit the cars he posted aren't meant for daily driving. People actually drive those cars on tracks and get up to speeds in excess of 190-210 mph with no problems whatsoever. I believe there is a difference in cheaply made drilled rotors and the ones costing a shit ton like the carbon ceramics on the ZR1. You get what you pay for.

I think both sides have good points at the end of the day.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

You have to admit the cars he posted aren't meant for daily driving. People actually drive those cars on tracks and get up to speeds in excess of 190-210 mph with no problems whatsoever. I believe there is a difference in cheaply made drilled rotors and the ones costing a shit ton like the carbon ceramics on the ZR1. You get what you pay for.

There's not a ton of difference in cast vs drilled iron rotors. You remove one issue only but leave all the rest.

190-210? On what track? Daytona in a fully prepped ALMS car? (which doesn't use drilled rotors btw)

And once those rotors get replaced on those track cars that I see at the track all the time, blanks replace the fancy drilled rotors a lot more often than they don't when people can find them.

Carbon brakes see some race car use, but it's limited due to the insanely expensive costs associated with them. Even Porsche themselves don't want to pay the price of admission on that one.

Do a search for people that track cars that come with those rotors and see what's popular there. The fact is that TypeR believes the hype that removing mass and adding a lot of stress points to a rotor somehow improves braking. That is simply not true. It does have other negatives that you'd see with track use, but for a lot of people who buy said cars they don't really get tracked anyways. Hell Carbon brakes work great at temp but not so great cold and result in longer stopping distances in some testing yet there are people that run them on cars that are intended to be 100% street cars.

[Type[R]+]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

The fact is that TypeR believes the hype that removing mass and adding a lot of stress points to a rotor somehow improves braking. That is simply not true. It does have other negatives that you'd see with track use, but for a lot of people who buy said cars they don't really get tracked anyways. Hell Carbon brakes work great at temp but not so great cold and result in longer stopping distances in some testing yet there are people that run them on cars that are intended to be 100% street cars.

I never said such a thing.

I am just saying that:

1: Everybody thinks they are a brake expert now lol!

2: If Drilled rotors are so evil and shit, why are they used by multiple manufacturers around the world on the worlds best supercars?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Type[R]+

I never said such a thing.

I am just saying that:

1: Everybody thinks they are a brake expert now lol!

2: If Drilled rotors are so evil and shit, why are they used by multiple manufacturers around the world on the worlds best supercars?

You didn't? Hmm let me go check page 1...

Oh yeah...

Originally Posted by Type[R]+

Yes, so slotted/drilled better than plain.....

So, you didn't say they worked better?

1. No one here has claimed to be a brake expert, but some obviously know more than others.

2. We've covered this numerous times. Would you, as an IS-F buyer, be as impressed with plain jane (but better) blank rotors? Or do you prefer the look and, to the mass public, false image of better performance from them?

[Type[R]+]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

2. We've covered this numerous times. Would you, as an IS-F buyer, be as impressed with plain jane (but better) blank rotors? Or do you prefer the look and, to the mass public, false image of better performance from them?

well then mr brake expert, answer my question about supercars using drilled rotors over plain or slotted....

They could use anything they like....