e85?

[ThePoet]

Originally Posted by fatoni

its just annoying having original posts being buried in the mess of stuff that we hear over and over. this is a place for questions and help and if you looked, you would have found it.

I've been a regular here for a solid three months, and I have never seen anything regarding E85, period, much less being part of the "mess of stuff we hear over and over". Give me a break...

[ThePoet]

Originally Posted by CircuitJerk

Well, you aren't going to get the best reception with an opening like that.




Refer to your opening statement. That should clear things up..:happy0180:

No, I still don't get it... Maybe it's because I'm one of those people who is genuinely not bothered by repeat questions, and am happy to respond with whatever help I can provide, even if I've done so 2 or 3 times already. I don't see the need to flame people for asking legitimate questions. People just need to chill out. This is an internet forum, not a congressional hearing.
Anyways, I got my answer, and I'm happy, so it's all good. And thank you for contributing.

Oh, and Merry Christmas everyone! :happy0180:

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by ThePoet

I've been a regular here for a solid three months, and I have never seen anything regarding E85, period, much less being part of the "mess of stuff we hear over and over". Give me a break...

Possibly because most of the E85 related threads are in Engine tech, and not in the General forum where you are now.

You not only admitted to not searching, which is proper forum etiquette, but more importantly you posted a simple question as a new topic. There are literally hundreds of these threads that are just wasting space and time. An already answered question is not an important enough reason for a new thread. Even if it did save your time, which is highly unlikely, you wasted other peoples' time and then a moderator would have to clean up after your mess.

Remember search first, second, and third. Then ask someone, preferably in a related thread or if you can find someone knowledgeable, private message. Many times the answer is already posted somewhere but you're not looking in the right place if you're looking at all. The last resort is to start a thread asking a simple question, in a related sub-forum. That is, only if it's important enough to be worth someone else's time.

[CircuitJerk]

Look ThePoet,

I'm pretty sure we're all genuinely happy to answer questions more than once.
I do it as part of my living, but at the same time, I teach them how to find answers on their own. Especially ones that seem willing to try and educate themselves before asking.

I think part of the irritation is most of us are trying to preserve a resource by minimizing the amount of additional threads on a similar subject where the questions have been asked and answered many times. Also, (like Allch said) this minimizes the amount of work for mods in sorting threads, and making future stuck threads where all that information is consolidated.
Additionally, this makes it easier and less tedious for those whom actually take the time to gather as much information before asking a question.

It's even mentioned in the rules, and probably is on just about every forum in existence.

Your position is self serving in nature and is counterproductive.

Happy Motoring

[FRiSson]

Originally Posted by CircuitJerk

Look ThePoet,

I'm pretty sure we're all genuinely happy to answer questions more than once.
I do it as part of my living, but at the same time, I teach them how to find answers on their own. Especially ones that seem willing to try and educate themselves before asking.

I think part of the irritation is most of us are trying to preserve a resource by minimizing the amount of additional threads on a similar subject where the questions have been asked and answered many times. Also, (like Allch said) this minimizes the amount of work for mods in sorting threads, and making future stuck threads where all that information is consolidated.
Additionally, this makes it easier and less tedious for those whom actually take the time to gather as much information before asking a question.

It's even mentioned in the rules, and probably is on just about every forum in existence.

Your position is self serving in nature and is counterproductive.

Happy Motoring

Who are YOU serving with your judgemental, snide attitude? People often ask the same question more than once. And what a surprise, sometimes they get a different answer than has previously been given. People aren't linear circuit emulators.

[CircuitJerk]

Originally Posted by FRiSson

Who are YOU serving with your judgemental, snide attitude? People often ask the same question more than once. And what a surprise, sometimes they get a different answer than has previously been given. People aren't linear circuit emulators.

The former question is pretty subjective, but from my perspective, it's the community as a whole.
As for my disposition, it may not be the most friendly way of getting a point across but I do take exception when someone blatently doesn't give a shit, makes it known and then is surprised at the reaction.
So in that respect, perhaps I'm serving myself. Yeah...

As for your final comments.

[wheelhaus]

It's unfortunate that you're so put off by people's expected responses, as I have to agree that searching is a primary function of forum etiquette; to find information that already exists. It's all about mutual respect. If you're not seeing the answer you're looking for, then it's perfectly fine to start a new thread, or better yet, add to an existing one if it's relevant enough.

Typically the discussion has already taken place multiple times and possibly beaten to death if it was debatable. Unless it's turned into an 800 page threadzilla, starting new threads increases the potential for misinformation and additional argument.

Forum culture is based on people helping each other, but those who are doing the helping get tired of repeating themselves to people who either aren't willing, too proud, or too lazy to even help themselves.

Anyways, E85 is not for me, either. Carry on...

[Pete]

I am concerned about the long term effects of E-85 in my car. I read an article recently that said that several auto manufacturers are not going to honor fuel related warranty work for cars that have used as little as E-15 fuel.
( http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...-cars/1735793/ )

There are several E-85 stations nearby so I could run it all the time but I am worried about reliability. While we are on the topic does anyone have better/more information? Such as what possible damage might actually occur?

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by Pete

I am concerned about the long term effects of E-85 in my car. I read an article recently that said that several auto manufacturers are not going to honor fuel related warranty work for cars that have used as little as E-15 fuel.
( http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...-cars/1735793/ )

There are several E-85 stations nearby so I could run it all the time but I am worried about reliability. While we are on the topic does anyone have better/more information? Such as what possible damage might actually occur?

I am waiting for more longe term testing on our cars based prmarly in the DI pump. All other components should be fine based on other Subaru's (WRX/STI) using it for years with no ill effects.

On the topic of warranty, the car manual states very clearly NOT to use any gasoline with more than 10% ethanol. That right there is grounds for warranty denial.

As soon as you start to modify your car for more power ( ECU flash, E85 gasoline, FI Kit, and other more involved things) you should just assume you just voided your warranty and deal with whatever comes up yourself.

Note: Obviously if the radio stops working it should still be covered under warranty, but if you install a FI kit and all of a sudden Cylinder 4 starts leaking oil, no need to even think it should be covered under warranty.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by ThePoet

I'm sure this has been asked and answered before, but I didn't really feel like searching, and I have more than one question
Basically I just want to know if our cars will run on e85, and if they will, what kind of power/mpg difference will there be? Better or worse? We just got a station selling it in town and I'm interested in using it because it's so much cheaper than regular gas.

Lesson to be learned:

Look HERE

THAT is how you start a thread asking a previously answered question but you have more questions on the topic.

kudos to @sc0urge

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

I am waiting for more longe term testing on our cars based prmarly in the DI pump. All other components should be fine based on other Subaru's (WRX/STI) using it for years with no ill effects.

On the topic of warranty, the car manual states very clearly NOT to use any gasoline with more than 10% ethanol. That right there is grounds for warranty denial.

As soon as you start to modify your car for more power ( ECU flash, E85 gasoline, FI Kit, and other more involved things) you should just assume you just voided your warranty and deal with whatever comes up yourself.

Note: Obviously if the radio stops working it should still be covered under warranty, but if you install a FI kit and all of a sudden Cylinder 4 starts leaking oil, no need to even think it should be covered under warranty.

It's not so much that I am concerned about the warranty(that's not going to be an issue with FI), it's more that I wonder why they would deny it. Are they aware of something I am not? Why would they say not to use more than E10 in the manual? What is the risk?

For instance, if I put a turbo or supercharger in my car I am aware of what the risks are and the damage that could be caused because it is well documented. I know I am taking on some risk in return for more power.

But for E85 there aren't really documented dangers to modern cars. Corrosion isn't an issue with the modern linings in fuel tanks and such, so what is the problem? Are they just using any excuse to deny a warranty claim or is there some meat to the argument?

The article I linked basically says the danger is that people with older cars will not notice the E15 sign and accidentally choose the wrong type of fuel. This isn't an issue for you or I. So if there are no real dangers for my car then Visconti's E85 tune is in my near future!

[bakerr6]

There's no inherent danger with e85 if the tune is correct, as you have a way to measure the mixture. Different stations do run a summer and winter blend. Toyota has designed the car to work in a certain manner, and should not be held liable for any changes made to the car that may alter the performance of the vehicle. This is why they say to only use premium fuel.

I had a great article that someone wrote when I first started running e85 on my mustang back in the day. I'll see if I can find it, as it puts the risks out in plain view, and also gives you measures to take that will help to make sure your car is running in top shape.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by Pete

It's not so much that I am concerned about the warranty(that's not going to be an issue with FI), it's more that I wonder why they would deny it. Are they aware of something I am not? Why would they say not to use more than E10 in the manual? What is the risk?

For instance, if I put a turbo or supercharger in my car I am aware of what the risks are and the damage that could be caused because it is well documented. I know I am taking on some risk in return for more power.

But for E85 there aren't really documented dangers to modern cars. Corrosion isn't an issue with the modern linings in fuel tanks and such, so what is the problem? Are they just using any excuse to deny a warranty claim or is there some meat to the argument?

The article I linked basically says the danger is that people with older cars will not notice the E15 sign and accidentally choose the wrong type of fuel. This isn't an issue for you or I. So if there are no real dangers for my car then Visconti's E85 tune is in my near future!

The statement is more of a blanket statement from Subaru/Toyota. For one, the ECU stock flash is not optimized to run high contents of ethanol and running high ethanol content gas on the stock flash hurts performance. Also by adding this statement, they are able to limit warrant liability which in turn saves them money.

I am pretty sure that statement has nothing to do with reliability or safety concerns regarding ethanol content. It has more to do with "we did not intend the car to work with high content ethanol (no flex fuel sensor, no ECU maps to adjust to it), so let's cover our asses right here".

[Pete]

Originally Posted by bakerr6

There's no inherent danger with e85 if the tune is correct, as you have a way to measure the mixture. Different stations do run a summer and winter blend. Toyota has designed the car to work in a certain manner, and should not be held liable for any changes made to the car that may alter the performance of the vehicle. This is why they say to only use premium fuel.

I had a great article that someone wrote when I first started running e85 on my mustang back in the day. I'll see if I can find it, as it puts the risks out in plain view, and also gives you measures to take that will help to make sure your car is running in top shape.

That would be very cool, I'd like to read it if you can find it.