Really, Subaru

[fistpoint]

Originally Posted by Mikes86

Warrenty work doesn't pay the tech or the dealership AS WELL as customer pay work does IN MOST CASES
Example: Warrenty water pump on a 05 corolla might pay the tech and the dealership .9 of an hour... That same job if it was customer pay the dealership would charge like 2.0-2.5 hours of labor...
It can go the other way too in some instances... Not as common but it can... We had a tech that could flag 2.5 hours on a simple tire light under Warrenty. Something that we generally didn't charge customers for... Unless the problem was more than just tire pressure anyway.

So it works like health insurance then? Funny how those 2 hour jobs suddenly get billed at the actual rate it took to complete them. That's the part I detest about mechanics. I'd love for them to hire a lawyer by the hour one day and get triple billed.

Anyone ever ask a shop about strut replacement? Yup, 2 hours per corner(8 hour claim), whole job completed in 2 hours including the time it took them to come pick you up.

[CaptainSlow]

Dealerships lie when it benefits them...most businesses probably do as well, but I've noticed a huge trend in dealerships.

Unrelated to warranty work, but when I called our local Scion dealership I was told flat out that they were the only dealership in the state with an FRS on the lot, that they were nearly impossible to find, and there were no leasing options available on them (I had to buy). I hung up and called a dealer an hour away (I had purchased my xA from this dealership, but had wanted to deal locally this time if I could) and they had one on the lot and said that I could absolutely lease if I wanted to. They told me a girl came in a few weeks prior and said a dealership down in Detroit told her the same thing my dealership told me.

TL;DR - Many dealerships will lie when they want to influence your decisions.

[Droptop]

Originally Posted by Mikes86

Warrenty work doesn't pay the tech or the dealership AS WELL as customer pay work does IN MOST CASES
Example: Warrenty water pump on a 05 corolla might pay the tech and the dealership .9 of an hour... That same job if it was customer pay the dealership would charge like 2.0-2.5 hours of labor...
It can go the other way too in some instances... Not as common but it can... We had a tech that could flag 2.5 hours on a simple tire light under Warrenty. Something that we generally didn't charge customers for... Unless the problem was more than just tire pressure anyway.

X2

[JesseE]

Originally Posted by fistpoint

So it works like health insurance then? Funny how those 2 hour jobs suddenly get billed at the actual rate it took to complete them. That's the part I detest about mechanics. I'd love for them to hire a lawyer by the hour one day and get triple billed.

Anyone ever ask a shop about strut replacement? Yup, 2 hours per corner(8 hour claim), whole job completed in 2 hours including the time it took them to come pick you up.

First of all, that's how tech's make money, they complete a 2 hour job in 1 hour they still get paid for 2 hours, so I could pretty easily bill out 12-20 hours in 1 days work(8-10 hours)

Also book time for all 4 struts for a fr-s is 2.5 hours front and 2.9 hours rear so your over exaggerating or your dealer is actually screwing you for whatever reason (money usually)

[Mikes86]

Originally Posted by JesseE

First of all, that's how tech's make money, they complete a 2 hour job in 1 hour they still get paid for 2 hours, so I could pretty easily bill out 12-20 hours in 1 days work(8-10 hours)

Also book time for all 4 struts for a fr-s is 2.5 hours front and 2.9 hours rear so your over exaggerating or your dealer is actually screwing you for whatever reason (money usually)

Exactly right... Techs make money by doing jobs fast... Guess what they also loose money if the don't get it done fast enough, which does happen... Maybe on a brake job or strut replacement a decent mech isn't going to loose out but, if u have customers come in with weird shit like strange noises or weird situations it's very easy to loose your ass on jobs, or maybe your first diagnosis is wrong you generally are not going to get more time (money) from a customer to rediag something because you were wrong first

[fistpoint]

Originally Posted by JesseE

First of all, that's how tech's make money, they complete a 2 hour job in 1 hour they still get paid for 2 hours, so I could pretty easily bill out 12-20 hours in 1 days work(8-10 hours)

Also book time for all 4 struts for a fr-s is 2.5 hours front and 2.9 hours rear so your over exaggerating or your dealer is actually screwing you for whatever reason (money usually)

Yes, I understand that's how techs make money, by overcharging people for labor NOT performed. That doesn't make it right. Lawyers make money too, hopefully from charging correctly for actually doing what was billed.

The 8 hour strut job was on my current RSX-S. But since you mentioned the FR-S job hours, that is still 2.5x times more than it actually takes, ask anyone here who has already done their own.

Every job "makes" money somehow...you don't have to overcharge to profit though. Those extra hours are just bonus money. That's why I buy Hondas, because they rarely if ever see the inside of a shop. At 163000+ miles now, the strut job has been the only job needed(now needing another).

So go on, tell us how we should feel bad for mechanics and gladly and willfully pay 2-3 times more for labor that wasn't needed or done. I'm willing to bet my life that any mechanic would be pissed when the plumber or electrician he hired to fix something at his house charged multiple times more hourly rate for the work he did for you. But...isn't that how plumbers and electricians make their money?

[JesseE]

Lets say you get quoted a job for 300 of labor(100$ per hour). Doesn't matter what for.

Say it's suppose to take 3 hours... Do you want someone to spend maybe 5-6 hours on it and charge you 500-600 instead of the 300. hell no.

That's why there is a Labor guide to give approx times on how long something should take and you know what your going to be paying up front.

Some jobs can easily be completed in less time if you know what your doing and your good at what your doing. Sometimes it takes longer if its not a super common thing or for whatever reason shit happens and it takes longer, I can assure you that no one wants to pay the extra money if it takes longer, but you want a discount if they get it done early? No because otherwise every mechanic would take 10x longer to do the job, and charge you for every hour.

[fistpoint]

Originally Posted by JesseE

Lets say you get quoted a job for 300 of labor(100$ per hour). Doesn't matter what for.

Say it's suppose to take 3 hours... Do you want someone to spend maybe 5-6 hours on it and charge you 500-600 instead of the 300. hell no.

That's why there is a Labor guide to give approx times on how long something should take and you know what your going to be paying up front.

Some jobs can easily be completed in less time if you know what your doing and your good at what your doing. Sometimes it takes longer if its not a super common thing or for whatever reason shit happens and it takes longer, I can assure you that no one wants to pay the extra money if it takes longer, but you want a discount if they get it done early? No because otherwise every mechanic would take 10x longer to do the job, and charge you for every hour.

That changes nothing. The book is full of shit when it quotes 3 and 4 times what it actually takes. The book refers to a drunk mechanic with one arm, half of one leg, no power tools, and if you're lucky, two working eyes.

What kind of mechanic doesn't have experience with struts? Who would use a wet behind the ear mechanic? A place in business for decades shouldn't quote 4x labor times. In my case I offered double the actual time until one accepted, even using my own parts. I guess he took the job knowing he was losing money

[Mikes86]

Originally Posted by fistpoint

That changes nothing. The book is full of shit when it quotes 3 and 4 times what it actually takes. The book refers to a drunk mechanic with one arm, half of one leg, no power tools, and if you're lucky, two working eyes.

What kind of mechanic doesn't have experience with struts? Who would use a wet behind the ear mechanic? A place in business for decades shouldn't quote 4x labor times. In my case I offered double the actual time until one accepted, even using my own parts. I guess he took the job knowing he was losing money

So if no one is going to use "a wet behind the ear mechanic" how are new techs supposed to get better... Everyone starts somewhere...
And if everyone charged exactly what it took them to manufacture a part or do a job then no one would make money...
Let's put it this way how much do u think it takes Starbucks to make a cup of coffee...like $1 maybe... But people still gladly pay $6 bucks for it, no one bitches to them that they charge 5X the amount it actually takes them.
Or how about all the fancy aftermarket parts... And exhaust doesn't take 1000 bucks worth of metal and time to make but everyone has no problem shelling out $1000-$1500 for $500 dollars worth of work and material.
U know why people do this... Because they see the "value" of quality parts or the "value" of a cup of coffee or the "value" of having someone who has worked on their brand of car before and has been factory trained and knows what to look for in most cases... And just if u didn't know out of the 80-125 an hour u pay for tech labor don't think that all goes to the tech... The tech is lucky to see 25 bucks an hour out of that...

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by fistpoint

That changes nothing. The book is full of shit when it quotes 3 and 4 times what it actually takes. The book refers to a drunk mechanic with one arm, half of one leg, no power tools, and if you're lucky, two working eyes.

Then why not just DIY?

I've worked in a flat-rate computer repair business before. Horrible, horrible idea for computers and the reason I hate giving anyone prices when they say "hey, can you look at my computer..." I had 60 dollar jobs end up taking two or three days to fix. And at the same time, I don't get mad if I have to call a plumber and electrician, because although yeah I'm probably being overcharged to a degree, I'm paying for their expertise. And I don't want to deal with this on my own:

[fistpoint]

Originally Posted by Mikes86

So if no one is going to use "a wet behind the ear mechanic" how are new techs supposed to get better... Everyone starts somewhere...
And if everyone charged exactly what it took them to manufacture a part or do a job then no one would make money...
Let's put it this way how much do u think it takes Starbucks to make a cup of coffee...like $1 maybe... But people still gladly pay $6 bucks for it, no one bitches to them that they charge 5X the amount it actually takes them.
Or how about all the fancy aftermarket parts... And exhaust doesn't take 1000 bucks worth of metal and time to make but everyone has no problem shelling out $1000-$1500 for $500 dollars worth of work and material.
U know why people do this... Because they see the "value" of quality parts or the "value" of a cup of coffee or the "value" of having someone who has worked on their brand of car before and has been factory trained and knows what to look for in most cases... And just if u didn't know out of the 80-125 an hour u pay for tech labor don't think that all goes to the tech... The tech is lucky to see 25 bucks an hour out of that...

I avoid damn near everything you wrote. Fuck Starbucks and their overpriced coffee. Starbucks is for 21st century beatniks and 30 somethings cruising for some high school snatch.

I don't modify my car either, largely because of the labor charges and the price of parts, exactly as you mentioned. But if or when I partake in these extras, I shop around for deals. This is America, we are a capitalist society that got to where we are through competition, specifically pricing competition.

Like I said, I did use a professional in the end, but not after finding a deal at half the labor cost. And the wet behind the ear mechanic most likely will be working in a shop alongside an established mechanic. My scenario earlier was in regards to a lone new mechanic...no, you avoid him until he gets some shop time just like everyone here being leery of taking their Subaru FR-S to a Scion dealership that has never seen a boxer engine before.

You guys make it sound like without paying full price, you aren't getting full service. That is just plain bullshit. There is always a competent professional willing to do the same job as the next guy for less money. Again, that's called competition and it is in your best interest to find these deals.

[gmookher]

wait. I thought Greed is good?

[goke186]

A good example would be programming a key fob or tpms sensors... Had a key stop working on my Scion tC and I found the process that needed to be done to reset the key to remotely unlock the car... Had to open and close the door a few times, roll the windows up and down, ect., ect.
Once done my time was 10 mins, long story short I had contacted multiple dealers (4) to reset my key (before attempting it myself) and was told that it would take 1.1 hours and that would be "rounded up" to 2.0 hours thus racking up a $220 bill from the dealership (Keep in mind this took me literally 10 minutes to complete).
I think that the major flaw with service departments is that most "round up" to the nearest hour, yes it makes balancing the books easier and makes money but in the end it's sketchy, obviously you aren't going to charge an ammount that you only break even with but when it's 200% over "breaking even" thats when you get into screwing people out of money just because you can. Just my $.02

[goke186]

Originally Posted by gmookher

wait. I thought Greed is good?

Greed is good if you like people avoiding you and/or your company like the plague once they figure out that they can get the same work for cheaper.:happy0180: