So my FR-S is officially a lemon...

[chadstyle]

I've actually Lemoned two vehicles over the years and I didn't need a lawyer as stated above because it was pretty cut and dry. First was in 1998 with a Mazda B4000 pick up that had an issue with the clutch. No matter who drove it or how the clutch engaged there was always a shudder that was annoying beyond belief. They changed it out 3 times in 6 months and eventually I received my purchase price back plus they compensated my gas mileage and after all was said and done I came out $800 ahead. The second was my ex wife's impulse but of the 2005 Chevy Equinox that every time it rained the floor got wet inside. After about 3 months of the car sitting at the dealer they determined that the cause was faulty welds at the factory roof seams from the factory and deemed the car a lemon. Being that she traded in a 2002 Civic Si during the purchase I had to write a check for $1,200.00 to bury the deal. I hated that hunk of junk Equinox anyways so I was stoked to have it gone.

All that said, no way in hell will they lemon your car over condensation in the tail lamp housings. Just ride the dealer hard and make sure they test the lamps before returning your car. They should provide you a loaner during this testing period so your time spent at the dealer should be minimal. Hope this helps.

[nonicname]

I can't believe you are making such a big deal over a fogged tailight.
It's not like an engine failure or something.

you guys need to get out of this country and check the SERIOUS problems people in other countries have.

[whaap]

I can see being frustrated but I wouldn't be angry at a car because of tail light problems. It appears the manufacturer that supplies the lights to Toyobaru had/has a quality control problem. That or the installers are screwing up a good product by over tightening. It's a totally new car in the market and things like this are bound to happen. It's the price we pay for having such a unique automobile. I would take another look at the whole issue and "cowboy up".

[frsinpa]

You guys seem to not understand the following...

1) This issue has been recurring... go do a search if you want some pics

2) If I have to fix the same issue OVER and OVER again.... it's obviously a defect.

It's not a reasonable expectation that you should have to get your taillights fixed 1X a month for the forseeable future.

I know it's a tough crowd around here, so I knew to expect some of this type of backlash.

If you want to pay $30K for a car... only to have to fix the tail lights 1X a month, then go for it. But I'm DEFINITELY not that guy.

I didn't plunk down all my hard earned cash so I can ride around in a defective car that is perpetually in a state where it needs repair. That's not me at all.

[WolfsFang]

so glad my car was built april, it has yet to have ANY issue. Well it got condensation for one night but after that nothing.

[FirestormFRS]

repair or correct any defect which substantially impairs the use, value or safety of the vehicle

This will be extremely difficult to prove. That word is so vague and broad you'll be hard pressed to get a lawyer that A: will fight with Scions legal department for years and B: be able to prove it.

The only bright side of the whole thing is if they fight it and lose they pay your attorney fees. The down side is if you can find a lawyer that can't define substantial you're stuck with the car. Good luck.

[JoeBoxer]

Ride around in a defective car? I'm sure its frustrating but they should have a Master Tech or Engineer install a new set of tailights. I really think you are overreacting it sounds like you aren't happy with the car purchase or the dealership and are trying to find a reason to get out of it.

Is there a TSB for this problem?

[wbradley]

I personally think its absurd to return the car over condensation. However, the lemon law might motivate them to eventually get this right vs dragging their heels.

Alternately if you we're hard set to do it at this point and the law was cut and dried, they should buy it back less mileage and tax. In other words unless you really just wanted out of the car you too will have motivation to give Toyota the chance to correct this despite a possible sequence of failed attempts.

[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by kanundrum

How bad is it ?

I would just take the tail light out pop some silicon around the seal and call it a day, I don't think its 100% lemon worthy unless you have the Atlantic in your taillight causing shorts and such

Originally Posted by DanoFA20

i understand your frustration but i find it a bit extreme to lemon law a car cause of a plastic tail light , in reality it makes sense the demand for the car is so grate they need to rush packaging parts and as most people know plastic housed taillights need to cure after creation, it seems toyota/subaru is making the parts and not letting them completely cure and test before putting it together so basically we get mildly warped plastic housings at the seals. id honestly just bring it in get the new taillights and keep living my day. if it comes back do it again till they get a proper seal. if it does drive you nuts, get the new taillights take them out yourself and put some silicone around the seals like stated and end of story.

i just honestly think lemon lawing a car because of a tail lamp assembly is a little extreme to rid yourself of a car you love.

if you were having mechanical problems multiple Xs in a row then id be like sorry to hear hope you get your money back and stuff. but a tail light assembly.. to me is just a little overboard. i too am busy but it is a first year production and there are issues we will inevitably go through this should be understood when purchasing a first year mode. but hey its your call bud sorry to hear you are having that hard a time.

i have a tiny bit of condensation but it went away im going to wash the car tomorrow after work see if it comes back if so ill call my dealer and bring it in when i have a day off done deal. but im a little more patient then most being a mechanic and understanding supply and demand and understanding parts do have factory flaws. but best of luck would like to see you still happy with your 86

Originally Posted by whaap

I can see being frustrated but I wouldn't be angry at a car because of tail light problems. It appears the manufacturer that supplies the lights to Toyobaru had/has a quality control problem. That or the installers are screwing up a good product by over tightening. It's a totally new car in the market and things like this are bound to happen. It's the price we pay for having such a unique automobile. I would take another look at the whole issue and "cowboy up".

Originally Posted by frsinpa

You guys seem to not understand the following...

1) This issue has been recurring... go do a search if you want some pics

2) If I have to fix the same issue OVER and OVER again.... it's obviously a defect.

It's not a reasonable expectation that you should have to get your taillights fixed 1X a month for the forseeable future.

I know it's a tough crowd around here, so I knew to expect some of this type of backlash.

If you want to pay $30K for a car... only to have to fix the tail lights 1X a month, then go for it. But I'm DEFINITELY not that guy.

I didn't plunk down all my hard earned cash so I can ride around in a defective car that is perpetually in a state where it needs repair. That's not me at all.

i can appreciate and understand your frustration,but are you serious about proceeding based upon a defective tail light housing? as mentioned,try running a bead of "silicon grease" around the outside diameter where the tail light "mates" with the the other half of the assembly,and see what happens!

[Wolfking]

So what you're sayin' is they have your second color (if such a thing exists) choice in stock as a great plan-b with a "hella-free" service plan?

[dem00n]

I have the same problem, my right tail light was already changed for condensation and its back. Even worse.

Now the right one is getting it as well and is also slightly cracked, i'll have to go back and change them both. Hope i don't have any problems....

Isn't the problem of the taillights getting condensation from the light being torqued too hard during installation? Maybe its the fault of the person putting it in, not the car...?

[DanoFA20]

Originally Posted by dem00n

I have the same problem, my right tail light was already changed for condensation and its back. Even worse.

Now the right one is getting it as well and is also slightly cracked, i'll have to go back and change them both. Hope i don't have any problems....

Isn't the problem of the taillights getting condensation from the light being torqued too hard during installation? Maybe its the fault of the person putting it in, not the car...?

thats actually what teh TSB report says, the tech who installs it is spose to be very careful and torque to specific spec. or it will crack the (boss) i guess it says on the list lol . if you do it cracks and bam water leakage. so im guessing alot of these techs are lazy which i know a lot and they are at times. and dont care. so they do the old fashioned "good n tight" method seams reasonable not

[chadstyle]

They won't lemon law a car over the tail light condensation, end of story.

[Texas BRZ]

There was another member local to me who I heard was heading in to have the tail light replaced for a 3rd time also, and I was about to advise him to perhaps consider to Lemon... But then I took that idea back because it really and truly may not be worth the mental hassle and time away from truly enjoying this great sports car... This is the truth, I feel.

OP, I completely understand your frustration... Just let it go, and let Toyota go ahead and cure the situation, and make sure that they attend to it accurately this time around by perhaps keeping in touch with Scion's Corporate Office in order to make sure they're with you all the way on this specifically. I'm very positive they want to make certain that you're happy at the end... Just give them that chance.

Don't let this minor issue which has popped up a few times get in the way with your ownership experience... It's not worth stressing over, and I hope you will indeed give the car a opportunity to be enjoyed thoroughly through its life with you. My FR-S has some small issues, as well... But I'm afraid of sacrificing even a day of my ownership due to being in the dealer's service shop... I'd rather enjoy it fully, despite the first-year hiccups. And I already know that I will likely trade-up for an updated version / model year later down the road anyway. For now, this car is meant to be enjoyed, and I hope you will feel the same way too.

All the best, frsinpa.