FRS stands for "FUN but REALLY SLOW"

[White Shadow]

The FR-S/BRZ has very similar acceleration to the old 5.0 V8 Mustangs of the late 80s & early 90s. They both run about the same 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. Here's the thing-- those Mustangs were a blast to drive back then. And I think they are still just as much fun to drive today. The only thing that changed is the fact that cars have gotten quicker over the years in general. But really, what does that matter unless you're a stoplight warrior trying to race every middle-age woman in a V6 Camry? A car that goes 0-60 in about 6 seconds and can run the 1/4 mile in about 15 seconds is just as much fun today as it was back in the 80s.

[DanoFA20]

The AE86 is slow as shit but its one of the most famous FR lightweight cars from japan...and still sells for over 6000 US $'s with a busted engine and dented body.

i for one am surprised that a subaru NA engine has this kind of acceleration for what it is.

i owned a 98 LGT 2.5 NA 5 speed. that shit was slow but was a decent enough ride even though the Headgasket on the phase 1 engine was SHIT! 165hp was junk but it still picked up to 120 when i had an itch up my ass. 200hp high rev light weight its awesome. and did i mention GAS MILAGE IS BOSSS. compared to my E36 . which got ummm 19mpg this car is getting me average 32mpg mixed city/hwy. my MPG thing says 45 alot when im cruising on the highway average says 32.8

sorry but yes its his opinion but hes not an owner and came on here to sort of sounds like troll. but what ever i didnt buy this car for him or anyone else to enjoy i bought it for ME to enjoy and i do so what evs have fun with your front wheel peel. :-P

if you wanted tons of balls youre looking at the wrong car. theres a difference between balance and pure force. go drive a mstang gt that things got balls. the 370 sorry i feel its junk. after 5500rpm it kind of plateaus which is why its called the 7/10ths car. plus the Z lost its character after the 300zx , 350z and 370z to me is just some blehhh no soul to it its boring looking to me and doesnt feel like a fairlady.

[crazyyankeefan]

OMG...some people are actually comparing minivans to FR-S here? seriously? Who cares! I would still go for FR-S any day even if it was 10 sec slower than a minivan.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by crazyyankeefan

OMG...some people are actually comparing minivans to FR-S here? seriously? Who cares! I would still go for FR-S any day even if it was 10 sec slower than a minivan.

Its not a comparison of Minivan vs FRS/BRZ like some of these threads in VS. It was a comparison to show that even though the BRZ/FRS automatic has a way better power to weight ratio than the Minivan it was still slower in a straight line. My point was to show P2W ratio doesn't always add up.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by DanoFA20

The AE86 is slow as shit but its one of the most famous FR lightweight cars from japan...and still sells for over 6000 US $'s with a busted engine and dented body.

i for one am surprised that a subaru NA engine has this kind of acceleration for what it is.

i owned a 98 LGT 2.5 NA 5 speed. that shit was slow but was a decent enough ride even though the Headgasket on the phase 1 engine was SHIT! 165hp was junk but it still picked up to 120 when i had an itch up my ass. 200hp high rev light weight its awesome. and did i mention GAS MILAGE IS BOSSS. compared to my E36 . which got ummm 19mpg this car is getting me average 32mpg mixed city/hwy. my MPG thing says 45 alot when im cruising on the highway average says 32.8

sorry but yes its his opinion but hes not an owner and came on here to sort of sounds like troll. but what ever i didnt buy this car for him or anyone else to enjoy i bought it for ME to enjoy and i do so what evs have fun with your front wheel peel. :-P

if you wanted tons of balls youre looking at the wrong car. theres a difference between balance and pure force. go drive a mstang gt that things got balls. the 370 sorry i feel its junk. after 5500rpm it kind of plateaus which is why its called the 7/10ths car. plus the Z lost its character after the 300zx , 350z and 370z to me is just some blehhh no soul to it its boring looking to me and doesnt feel like a fairlady.

First off you don't know what you are talking about here.

1. The 370Z makes its power above 7k rpms. Just look up any 370Z dyno for confirmation.

http://www.370z.com/Forums/tabid/88/...c/Default.aspx

2. Chris Harris called it a 8/10ths car and he tested a "BASE" model 370Z without the Sport package which includes a giant list of things important. Go and look at any other review with the Sport or Nismo package and I guarantee you will find all of them say this word about its handling "really neutral at the limit".

The only "real" negatives I have read about the Z pertains to NVH of the whole car which IMO is not a big deal since it's a sports car and not a luxury car.

[crazyyankeefan]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

First off you don't know what you are talking about here.

1. The 370Z makes its power above 7k rpms. Just look up any 370Z dyno for confirmation.

http://www.370z.com/Forums/tabid/88/...c/Default.aspx

2. Chris Harris called it a 8/10ths car and he tested a "BASE" model 370Z without the Sport package which includes a giant list of things important. Go and look at any other review with the Sport or Nismo package and I guarantee you will find all of them say this word about its handling "really neutral at the limit".

The only "real" negatives I have read about the Z pertains to NVH of the whole car which IMO is not a big deal since it's a sports car and not a luxury car.

I agree. He needs to get some facts straight. 370Z delivers most of its power from 4000k above all the way to the red line.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

First off you don't know what you are talking about here.

1. The 370Z makes its power above 7k rpms. Just look up any 370Z dyno for confirmation.

http://www.370z.com/Forums/tabid/88/...c/Default.aspx

2. Chris Harris called it a 8/10ths car and he tested a "BASE" model 370Z without the Sport package which includes a giant list of things important. Go and look at any other review with the Sport or Nismo package and I guarantee you will find all of them say this word about its handling "really neutral at the limit".

The only "real" negatives I have read about the Z pertains to NVH of the whole car which IMO is not a big deal since it's a sports car and not a luxury car.

Agree with your comments on the Z's powerband, but not with the bolded part above. The 370Z isn't really neutral at the limit, it actually has a fair amount of understeer. Have you driven one yet? You can break the rear loose with power, but its steady state characteristic is definitely understeer.

Other than the FR-S, I can't think of modern cars that are actually neutral at the limit. I've heard the Focus ST is, but haven't driven one for myself, so can't verify.

[Rayme]

Originally Posted by njccmd2002

i've got to give it to you guys.

I got frustrated at page 2 and skip to the end just to realize the same thing

5 pages and nothing accomplished.

Post whoring anyone?

I agree, too much jimmies getting rustled 'round here

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Agree with your comments on the Z's powerband, but not with the bolded part above. The 370Z isn't really neutral at the limit, it actually has a fair amount of understeer. Have you driven one yet? You can break the rear loose with power, but its steady state characteristic is definitely understeer.

Other than the FR-S, I can't think of modern cars that are actually neutral at the limit. I've heard the Focus ST is, but haven't driven one for myself, so can't verify.

Have you driven a Sport or a Nismo? Also I have seen reviews that say the FRS/BRZ has some at the limit understeer too. I think understeer is in every car its just a matter of how much.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

Have you driven a Sport or a Nismo? Also I have seen reviews that say the FRS/BRZ has some at the limit understeer too. I think understeer is in every car its just a matter of how much.

Yeah back when I was considering the 370Z, I only drove Zs equipped with the sports package because I was interested in the LSD. The Z's got a lot of grip, but the steady-state characteristic is definitely understeer. The FR-S is almost completely neutral at the limit, almost shockingly so. When I autocrossed it, I was laughing to myself that Toyota (of all companies) would have the balls to tune a car so neutral in handling balance.

Here, if you don't believe me, read what Edmunds said about the FR-S on the skidpad:

FR-S Skid pad: This is a real throttle-steering car, and it's easy to get too much oversteer which would hurt the skid pad number. But, with small, careful throttle changes (not easy, because throttle is a bit abrupt) you can control the car's angle very nicely.

Compare that to what they said about the 370z (with sport package):

370Z Skid pad: (Skid pad) Limits are high but understeer is heavy as they approach. Coaxing the Z into tail-out goodness isn't as easy as I'd like.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Yeah back when I was considering the 370Z, I only drove Zs equipped with the sports package because I was interested in the LSD. The Z's got a lot of grip, but the steady-state characteristic is definitely understeer. The FR-S is almost completely neutral at the limit, almost shockingly so. When I autocrossed it, I was laughing to myself that Toyota (of all companies) would have the balls to tune a car so neutral in handling balance.

Here, if you don't believe me, read what Edmunds said about the FR-S on the skidpad:

FR-S Skid pad: This is a real throttle-steering car, and it's easy to get too much oversteer which would hurt the skid pad number. But, with small, careful throttle changes (not easy, because throttle is a bit abrupt) you can control the car's angle very nicely.

Compare that to what they said about the 370z (with sport package):

370Z Skid pad: (Skid pad) Limits are high but understeer is heavy as they approach. Coaxing the Z into tail-out goodness isn't as easy as I'd like.

I saw in the edmunds review they blamed it on worn tires. Any car with worn tires produce understeer. Now I have seen sources say the understeer isnt heavy but mild. The Nismo is completely neutral though and you can but the parts from them for the suspension. I rather spend money on proven parts for handling over spending huge sums of money on a engine and run the risk of blowing up a engine.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I saw in the edmunds review they blamed it on worn tires. Any car with worn tires produce understeer. Now I have seen sources say the understeer isnt heavy but mild. The Nismo is completely neutral though and you can but the parts from them for the suspension. I rather spend money on proven parts for handling over spending huge sums of money on a engine and run the risk of blowing up a engine.

Yeah I agree with that generally and you can certainly modify the 370z to make it handle neutral at the limit. I was just commenting on my experience driving a stock 370z.

One thing you should note if you're considering a 370z: It has its share of engine-related issues on the track. Most people on the 370z boards will tell you that you should get an oil cooler if you plan to do track days with it. There are some owners who've wasted a lot of expensive track time on cool-down laps while the engine was in limp-mode. Also the well-known brake fade issue. It takes some money to get a 370z reliable on the track.

[SUB-FT86]

Oh I know. I have no reservations for track driving the Z or a BRZ. I just love the feel of them for a Daily Driver and occasionally hit up back roads in Ga.

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Yeah I agree with that generally and you can certainly modify the 370z to make it handle neutral at the limit. I was just commenting on my experience driving a stock 370z.

One thing you should note if you're considering a 370z: It has its share of engine-related issues on the track. Most people on the 370z boards will tell you that you should get an oil cooler if you plan to do track days with it. There are some owners who've wasted a lot of expensive track time on cool-down laps while the engine was in limp-mode. Also the well-known brake fade issue. It takes some money to get a 370z reliable on the track.

Don't the newer Zs come with oil coolers? I thought the 11+ models did.