Why you shouldnt support knock off companies..

[White Shadow]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

.

That video is a joke, right? Even an idiot can see that the Chinese car is moving at a much higher rate of speed than the German car.

[Gen]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

... I'm not sure why but there's is something fundamentally broken with the moral compass of Chinese businessmen. The Chinese have repeatedly demonstrated a callous disregard for the health and safety of others in return for healthy profits.

They're going through the same thing the US did when we were developing as a country (poor working conditions, no regulation, dangerous products) It's the main reason I don't think China will ever become the dominant economic force in the world. Inevitably, wages will rise, quality will go up, regulations will be implemented, and manufacturing will move to another country.

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by White Shadow

That video is a joke, right? Even an idiot can see that the Chinese car is moving at a much higher rate of speed than the German car.

Nope it's not. It's the same crash test administered by the same European agency. The frame rates diffrent but it's well documented how poorly the Chinese have done in independent crash testing

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by dwx

I would expect them to, this is the 21st century. The scientists and engineers in China are just as smart as those found anywhere else. The issue comes down to lax regulations, which they are trying to change since they are more and more in a worldwide spotlight.

People will cut corners to make a buck and if the regulations aren't in place, they will, doesn't matter what country it is.

As for knockoff car parts, I try to at least buy parts from vendors where I know where parts and materials originated from. You may be buying an exhaust from someone in the US but the piping might have come from China... As for the Rota example, I have owned a few sets of Rotas. I would not have owned a few sets of Volks and Work wheels, I'm not taking any money out of their pocket because it never would have been there to begin with.

It's the same argument with software/movie/etc. piracy. They claim they are losing billions of dollars but the fact is most of the stuff people pirate they never would have purchased to begin with.

You aren't taking money from Volk, but you ARE taking money from other lower budget companies that do things the right way with their own designs. Because you want your wheels to look like Volks, not because you just want a cheaper cast wheel.

Companies like ASA could fill your need, but you only bought Rotas because they knock off Volk.

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by industrial

Are you honestly telling me Americans and Europeans have never done similar/worse things? The capitalistic model is flawed bro. The whole fucking model. When greed runs unchecked, these kinds of things happen. It's not just China.

You just hate the Chinese.

Within my life span I can't remember a single instance of any kind, of a registered Americian or Europiean company selling plastics as food, putting chemicals in milk to water it down and killing babies, selling counterfit medicines (or counterfit airbags) for that matter, counterfitting anything. Not aftermarket, counterfit and these are registered Chineese companies selling this lethal crap.

Capitalism is deeply flawed but you're goddam right I hate the Chinese. Tommrow it might be somewhere else but right now the epicenter of immoral businesses practices on this planet is the People's Republic Of China.

[scyzer]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

... I'm not sure why but there's is something fundamentally broken with the moral compass of Chinese businessmen. The Chinese have repeatedly demonstrated a callous disregard for the health and safety of others in return for healthy profits.

Okay, but when you're a manufacturing country with a population over 1 billion, you would expect a small portion of the populace to do incredibly dodgy things.

You're overgeneralizing to an entire country.

Also you're coming through as being incredibly bigoted as you may have noticed from the replies.

I'm confused by the fact that you agree that demand is driven by greed, give the auto-shop example, then continue to blame the Chinese almost entirely...

[scyzer]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

Within my life span I can't remember a single instance of any kind, of a registered Americian or Europiean company selling plastics as food, putting chemicals in milk to water it down and killing babies, selling counterfit medicines (or counterfit airbags) for that matter, counterfitting anything. Not aftermarket, counterfit and these are registered Chineese companies selling this lethal crap.

Capitalism is deeply flawed but you're goddam right I hate the Chinese. Tommrow it might be somewhere else but right now the epicenter of immoral businesses practices on this planet is the People's Republic Of China.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinkley..._contamination

If you remember the Erin Brockovich movie...

Also google Mass Tortes and see what other product/public liability suits have gone through America in the last 50 years.

I don't think there's any point further discussing this with you, you seem to have no problem admitting you have a racist streak in you.

[Ravenlokk]

It's simple supply and demand. Lots of people wont want to pay retail for rediculous ly marked up items. Capitalism breeds capitalism- low cost mfg will always pop up to fill the gap.

Ib4 cheap sweatshops vs slave labor debate... It's not just Chinese with poor morals, lets be careful before making racist remarks.

[OmarGC]

Originally Posted by industrial

Oh shut the fuck up. Every country has crooked business men. Are you honestly telling me Americans and Europeans have never done similar/worse things? The capitalistic model is flawed bro. The whole fucking model. When greed runs unchecked, these kinds of things happen. It's not just China.

You just hate the Chinese.

This to Art... lmao

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

Nope it's not. It's the same crash test administered by the same European agency. The frame rates diffrent but it's well documented how poorly the Chinese have done in independent crash testing

Crash safety standards yo. If crash safety standards are low then inevitably most companies will try to go for a lower level of crash protection because it costs money to design the extra protection in, and to build cars that are stronger and have more airbags. Not to mention it makes the car heavier.

How well do you think one of those British "street legal" track day cars would fare in an accident? Hint: they're not road legal in the US, and they certainly have indicators, lights, and seat belts... Or a more sane example, the Lotus Elise had to have airbags put in, and even then it needed an exemption.

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by scyzer

Also you're coming through as being incredibly bigoted as you may have noticed from the replies.

Originally Posted by scyzer

I don't think there's any point further discussing this with you, you seem to have no problem admitting you have a racist streak in you.

I like going here. It helps keep me emotionally responsible to the subject as well as provides crystal clarity to the point of view and my shortcomings.

Am I a bigot? Using any reasonable definition, yes I am. Am I a racist? No I am not. Theres are dozens of diffrent races in China and don't hate any of them. Language and skin color arn't issues for me. This is not a race problem. My Bigotry is one of national and economic concerns and it's firmly aimed against goverments and economic systems who's existence threaten to diminish or extinguish my own.

This thread original subject is about knock off parts comming from China threatening The existence of established companies because nobody can seem to complete with pennies on the dollar copies of their own products. And I get angry because I believe in, and practice, business fairly. From nearly all of the written englsh media i've been exposed to in the last 20 years on the subject I fundelmentally believe the Chineese collectievely have little desire to practice fair and responsible business internationally. We've never have the problems trading with the Africians, Brazillians, Germans, Indians, or the Japaneese that we've been experiencing with China.

You bring 50 years of product liability suits and I think your right, and then I think yay the system works! Then we trade with a country who dosent play by the rules and I'm thinking, boo, the system dosent work. I could fill these pages with all of the US/Chinese trade disputes and product scandals and it still wouldn't convince you we have a problem.

[scyzer]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

You bring 50 years of product liability suits and I think your right, and then I think yay the system works! Then we trade with a country who dosent play by the rules and I'm thinking, boo, the system dosent work. I could fill these pages with all of the US/Chinese trade disputes and product scandals and it still wouldn't convince you we have a problem.

I entirely agree that there is a problem with quality control and theft of intellectual property. What I disagree with is the source and ultimate solution to the problem.

You seem a little fixated on the problem stemming from the supply side rather than demand. Regarding the toxic milk products - the individuals responsible were caught - some were executed over the scandal:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Ch...l_prosecutions

If the "system working" is just a measure of appropriate restitution and not preventative enforcement - then the system has worked as well in this example as much as it has in most product liability cases in the US.

However, I don't believe that either case is really acceptable - even though they do demonstrate that such events can occur in almost any country.

Ultimately, this is a demand side issue. With regulation in foreign (non-Chinese domestic) countries and the influence of entities such as the FDA these products - which may sell in China due to lax regulation - won't be making it onto foreign shores without demand driving dodgy domestic business practices.

Get rid of China and another equally dodgy supplier will step up. Again your hatred should really be directed locally.

Mind you, this is all in relation to the sale of dangerous goods.

Returning to the initial issue of knock off parts - 100% counterfeits are illegal in most countries, and regulation against their sales does exist.

With theft of product design - yes this is a problem. If larger companies do get put out of business with less innovative companies copying their designs - you will end up with a shortage on R&D.

However, I would like to echo the comments of others in the thread - there are only so many ways you can design the basic structure of an exhaust. A Y-Split for example, regardless of what some vendors/manufacturers would like you to believe, really isn't a patent-worthy design that should be protected.

[arghx7]

[subatoy]

people have to be EXTREMELY stupid to purchase such things as an air bag as knock offs.

9 years ago I purchased one of those EBAY turbo kits (I didn't know any better)for $999 I installed the kit and ran really well for 2 years without any problems I sold the car to some shop guy and I saw him again 4 years ago STILL running the SAME kit.

I'm not saying go buy an EBAY kit, maybe I was just lucky but where I'm trying to get is that I hate when the aftermarket companies just ask for insane profits on any kits.

An example is GTR exhaust systems cost around $6k! and it has the same materials, R&D and labor as something that is sold for $1.5K by the same company.

aftermarket companies price things according to the consumer so if you
"have money" you'll pay more.

This is the kind of bullshit that makes me not care about buying the real thing.

I'll buy ANY ROTA wheels any day.