RX8 out Ran My FRS (Rotary Vs Flat 4)

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Fatoni is the rational balance to retardedly fanboi-sh comments and noob ignorance.

For instance the Mk1 to Mk2 prototype redesign to make it more 'American' and since the American sales division was Scion, what does that mean?

[Demandred7]

My intent of my words was never to condone street racing nor to be traveling at over double the highway speed limit within city limits. Endangering innocent bystanders for anyone's ego is simply stupidity. Save it for the track after you have had some sort of HPDE. This car can make you feel like a superhero, but, the reality is that we are all human and make mistakes. Save it for the track where everyone has accepted the risks. I have been young and stupid. I have done this on the highway (in a different vehicle (an Acura RSX (if anyone is that curious)) and that was stupid even in those circumstances. Fortunately, I have matured since then. My epiphany was having kids, others will find their's in other ways.

[jadewbj]

The 135i would DESTROY our cars and forget if they had anything done to them. I have a buddy with a 135i with about 600HP and 600TQ with factory turbos, just bolt ons.

[Demandred7]

Originally Posted by jadewbj

The 135i would DESTROY our cars and forget if they had anything done to them. I have a buddy with a 135i with about 600HP and 600TQ with factory turbos, just bolt ons.

"Just" bolt ons, love how it is "just". That is like saying it "only" doubles the horsepower. Stock is 300 isn't it?

[jadewbj]

Originally Posted by Demandred7

"Just" bolt ons, love how it is "just". That is like saying it "only" doubles the horsepower. Stock is 300 isn't it?

That is the whole point. With nothing more than exhaust, a tune and a few other goodies he was able to double the power.

The motor in that car is the "new supra" motor. Crazy power with minimal mods. No need to open the motor, no need to upgrade the turbos even.

[Demandred7]

Originally Posted by jadewbj

That is the whole point. With nothing more than exhaust, a tune and a few other goodies he was able to double the power.

The motor in that car is the "new supra" motor. Crazy power with minimal mods. No need to open the motor, no need to upgrade the turbos even.

Not calling it BS, just seemed like a little over-simplification at the time that I read it, but, then I remembered that Dinan is a perfect example of very little mods with big gains. However, I had already pressed "post" at that point.

I am stoked to see the results from that partnership.

[jadewbj]

Originally Posted by Demandred7

Not calling it BS, just seemed like a little over-simplification at the time that I read it, but, then I remembered that Dinan is a perfect example of very little mods with big gains. However, I had already pressed "post" at that point.

I am stoked to see the results from that partnership.

No problem. Keep in mind that the car is a factory turbo so making power is much easier. The motor can handle a ton, it really is a beast.

[Demandred7]

Originally Posted by jadewbj

No problem. Keep in mind that the car is a factory turbo so making power is much easier. The motor can handle a ton, it really is a beast.

Although, at $43200 (at least here in Canada), the 135i is at an entirely different price point (with nothing added). I know price does not necessarily equal power, but, I am not sure this would be fair comparison to the FR-S / BRZ / GT86 (and I know that there are some pretty whacked comparisons on the forum). As you mentioned, this motor may end up in the Supra. The Lexus IS350 is probably a better match for the 135i.

People need to realize that this car is a sports car and not a muscle / pony car. And there is nothing wrong with that nor is it something to be ashamed of.

[Allch Chcar]

Definitely the Renesis. The rotary has many advantages over a piston flat 4 when it comes to making power. It's not the best to boost but it's a nice engine for strictly N/A performance, disregarding the thirsty 2 stroke nature. Not the least of which is the fact that it's technically 1.3L in size(not displacement) while also being smaller and more compact than a flat 4. Complete weight is about the same though.

Now the reliability was not too good for the Renesis(especially the '04-'05) but I think that is more so emissions and just plain Mazda reliability. Good thing it's easy to rebuild.

For a DD, I'll take the hit in power for decent fuel economy and less maintenance cost. You basically have to count in a rebuild around 100k miles to a RX-8. People love to buy up RX-8 with bad engines and drop v8's into them. Probably the best of both worlds for a high performance sedan.

[dyim]

Originally Posted by jadewbj

The 135i would DESTROY our cars and forget if they had anything done to them. I have a buddy with a 135i with about 600HP and 600TQ with factory turbos, just bolt ons.

That sounds excessive/ optimistic. Would love to see the dyno results.

[jadewbj]

Originally Posted by dyim

That sounds excessive/ optimistic. Would love to see the dyno results.

I am waiting for him to send me his dyno and mods but here is one I found with a quick google. It is only intake, exhaust and flash.

I am telling you these things take mods so well and make so much power with little mods.



Actual Mod List.
Riss Downpipes (1st gen)
Code3 FMIC (old school as well)
BMS Dual Cone Intake
JB3 2.0 (3.22.10 update) - Map 8
92 Octane + 101 Octane Trick Fuel (mixed)

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=315885

[scorcherjf]

Uh well I used to have a 135i... and yea they make great power but there's no way you're making 600hp on the stock turbos with any sort of reliability. To get to 500hp you're either running race fuel with full water/meth injection and nitrous or you've upgraded the turbos.

Originally Posted by jadewbj

I am waiting for him to send me his dyno and mods but here is one I found with a quick google. It is only intake, exhaust and flash.

I am telling you these things take mods so well and make so much power with little mods.



Actual Mod List.
Riss Downpipes (1st gen)
Code3 FMIC (old school as well)
BMS Dual Cone Intake
JB3 2.0 (3.22.10 update) - Map 8
92 Octane + 101 Octane Trick Fuel (mixed)

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=315885

[jadewbj]

Originally Posted by scorcherjf

Uh well I used to have a 135i... and yea they make great power but there's no way you're making 600hp on the stock turbos with any sort of reliability. To get to 500hp you're either running race fuel with full water/meth injection and nitrous or you've upgraded the turbos.

Go ahead and flame away, I deserve it.

I am sorry, it was actually 500, not 600. I was talking flywheel not wheel HP too. Still crazy impressive. That was on pump gass. With E85 they should be able to get much better results.

He made 417.6HP and 480.3TQ with a 15% drivetrain loss that is 480.24HP and 552.34TQ

His Mod list:
AFE Version 2 Intake
AFE Intake scoops
Titek Charge Pipe
HKS BOV
Agency Power Catless downpipes
Custom 3.5″ CFT Exhaust
JB4 Software
Active Autowerk Intercooler
BMS Oil Catch Can

[roadtrip1098]

Keep in mind a rotary motor is smaller, and the cylinder fires 3 times every rotation where a single cylinder conventional motor fires once every two rotations.
So with a 1.3L Rotary you get 1.3L 3 times per rotation so that's 3.9L per rotation
In an H4 2.0 you get 2 cylinders firing per rotation at .5L each so that's 1.0L per rotation.
Since motors are basically air pumps, and the more are you pump the more power you make you can see where the argument is going. While the math doesn't tell the whole story, it certainly gives you an idea of why the rotary is able to edge out the H4 in this case. Granted there is no way in hell a 1.3R pumps out 4x the power of a 2.0H4 mostly because of compression ratios, max RPM, ect.