Anybody here getting that greasy "$27k" feeling?

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by bofa

Maybe we can all get away from this OTD talk and keep it simple.

Yes please! Much easier to talk in MSRP as TTL is completely dependent on where you live.

[bofa]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

Where do you live? The WRX/STIs are hard to come by now since they are at the end of the model year. Very few left in the country. So you either have to get it earlier in the model year or have them special order exactly what you want.

I agree, talking TTL/out the door pricing isn't worthwhile since that is highly dependent on your state/county here in the USA. It is better to speak of MSRP since that will be the same across the country.




Imagine if this car is successful and forces Honda to come out with some exciting, as well as Mazda (RX9 please!!), and maybe even get something from Mitsu that isn't an Evo. More competition the better.






I agree. I think $23k would be a fair price, but I might go up to $24-25 depending on the specs and features. But $23-23.5 would hit a real nice sweet spot for the base. Then you can get the options to your hearts delight and push it closer to $26-27k if that is what someone wants to spend. I sure don't.

I'm in North Florida. I've shopped the WRX three different times in the past 10 years and each time they usually had 1-2 base models, each with 2-3k in upgrades already installed. Granted I could probably have made them remove them or order me one, but I'm not a big fan of dealers like this and theres only one in the area. The sales was a prick on my first visit too... so maybe I'm still holding a bit of a grudge.

I really do hope it stirs up some competition and makes some of these cars reconsider their pricing.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

Actually you aren't correct ..... So you CAN NOT make a broad sweep statement like that for autos.... However I agree there are some cars that have seen incredible amounts of inflation, specifically sports cars and luxury cars come to mind.

I'm right and you clearly agree when you phrase it yourself. Feel free to compare irrelevant non-sports cars that have lowered quality, cut out features, and have amortized tooling over many years. Oh wait, you did.


You can't dictate the pricing no matter how loud you yell. If your budget is $23k, then keep your fingers crossed, but don't be dejected if the car costs more. Sports cars are luxury goods, and no amount of rationalization can change that.

[enc0re]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

You guys gotta be out your mind thinking about $25k starting prices. Just a show of hands how many of you are going to buy this in the 1st year or is this a god damn pipe dream for yall?? I can buy this right away yet somehow I won't even touch it at over $23k. I mean do I value money more than others? Am I not seeing the value of this car? I mean someone please enlighten me. I don't want to hear about monetary or political BS, I want to know why this car deserves to be priced higher over other better sport compacts and close to more featured cars(5.0GT, 370, WRX)?

I for one am not paying over 22,999 for one. Or else I'll just get a WRX or perhaps new DI Gen Coupe. I honestly think the car is worth 21-22k no more and no less.

Same here. If it comes in at $25K I'd rather pay the delta and get another another 3-Series, or maybe a 1er.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

I'm right, and I did. Feel free to compare non-sports cars that have lowered quality, cut out features, and have amortized tooling over many years. Oh wait, you did.

No you are wrong because you used a blanket statement thinking that would cover all vehicles. It does not as I just showed. You said:

The kind of new car $20k bought back in year 2000 approximates the class of new car you can buy now for $30k.

Well I showed you two vehicles, a Civic and a WRX STI. One was under $20k so that should put it at just under $30k with your logic, and the other was just over $30k which should put it at just over $40k. But guess what? Your logic failed since it wasn't based on reality. Yes there are cars that have had their prices increase over the years. But along with that comes more standard features. Also there are several examples where the price has not increased. Sorry, but you are still wrong with your blanket statement. The correct answer is: "some vehicles have seen steadily increases in the cost of the vehicle over the years whereas other cars have not seen such a drastic increase in cost and have actually stayed below in the increase in inflation." Want to try again?



Btw Ryephile, since when wasn't the WRX STI a sports car?

Originally Posted by enc0re

Same here. If it comes in at $25K I'd rather pay the delta and get another another 3-Series, or maybe a 1er.

Likewise for me. Unless $25k includes Recaros and HIDs, no way I will pay that much for this car.

[Matador]

How much more would you have to pay for a comparably equipped 1er? BM nickel and dime you for everything, You are kidding yourself, and might as well just get a 1er if that's your prerogative.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

Btw Ryephile, since when wasn't the WRX STI a sports car?

Performance car, yes. Sports car, no.

Performance and sporting are not interchangeable. The Miata is not a performance car, but it has been the definitive sports car since 1989. The STI started as a crappy econobox sedan and was built-up so it actually went forward and turned a bit, albeit with minimal driver interaction. As such, it's not a sports car. Can you wrap your head around that?

Originally Posted by tranzformer

Unless $25k includes Recaros and HIDs, no way I will pay that much for this car.

Why not? What's the problem? What other low-production FR sports cars are out there for $25k besides the Miata? If Toyoda-san is out there on the 'ring giving the LF-A a tough time in the corners, what's stopping Toyota from marketing the FR-S as a baby LF-A and charging $30k or more?

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

Why not? What's the problem? What other low-production FR sports cars are out there for $25k besides the Miata? If Toyoda-san is out there on the 'ring giving the LF-A a tough time in the corners, what's stopping Toyota from marketing the FR-S as a baby LF-A and charging $30k or more?

Because the spirit of the FT86/FRS is the AE86 which was a small, affordable, fun to drive car. Affordable is a key word. I realize that is highly dependent on the person, but I don't think many would find $30k to be affordable for this car. Btw, it is being sold as a Scion. Remember that company that sells all their cars under $19k as of now.


The base AE86 new back in 1987 cost how much? Somewhere around $10-11k? That puts it just around $20-22k with the CPI inflation calculator. $30k would be suicide for this car. Ryephile, why don't you create a poll and ask how many forum members would buy this car if it is priced at $30k.

[PAImportTuner]

I'm sorry there are some thing I can't hold back but anyone paying over $23k base for this car is retarded. I have the finances, I can buy one the first day it hits the floor but there is no way I can mentally pay over 22k for this car.

Nothing justifies this price.

I have a Cobra, Pathfinder, and a newly acquired CPO R56 Mini Cooper S. I might just get a new Miata to fill the rwd nimble car, I want to get the 216a but by the looks of it that might not happen, especially when the forums are submitting to the idea of $25k then that's what TMC will price it at, since that's how they gather their info. I hate threads like these in the first place.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

especially when the forums are submitting to the idea of $25k then that's what TMC will price it at, since that's how they gather their info. I hate threads like these in the first place.

I don't want to pay $25k either unless as I stated above it comes with HIDs and Recaros at that price. I agree, price it at $23k and change and it will sell. There are only a few on here that are expecting/hoping it to cost more. I wouldn't say that is the norm.

[PAImportTuner]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

Because the spirit of the FT86/FRS is the AE86 which was a small, affordable, fun to drive car. Affordable is a key word. I realize that is highly dependent on the person, but I don't think many would find $30k to be affordable for this car. Btw, it is being sold as a Scion. Remember that company that sells all their cars under $19k as of now.


The base AE86 new back in 1987 cost how much? Somewhere around $10-11k? That puts it just around $20-22k with the CPI inflation calculator. $30k would be suicide for this car. Ryephile, why don't you create a poll and ask how many forum members would buy this car if it is priced at $30k.

We should do a poll about who is going to buy this car the first 6 months and who is just blowing smoke. Because some of these pipe dreamers are asking and wanting this car to be a certain way but they probably can't afford because they are a)in debt b) bad credit c)not enough credit d)low income e)unemployed f) mid income with debt. Not saying all but I pretty sure a lot fall into this car seeing as the target audience is 17-25. Well I'm not any of those or age for that matter, I can very well order this car and pick it up once it hits the port, just like that.

Also who wants to be apart of an aftermarket where the other owners will pay almost anything for parts, if they will pay almost anything for a car like this. It's a trickle down effect, I must be the cheapest well off consumer.

Now take $27.4k OTD and put that into 4-6% APR by 72months I hope you guys can afford a 400+/month payment + 140+/mo in insurance + 300+/mo gas. That's $840+ a month for this car can you guys realistically do that?

Let's do a poll on $840+ a month and also like previously mentioned who is buying in the first 6 months.

[Aki]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

Performance car, yes. Sports car, no.

Performance and sporting are not interchangeable. The Miata is not a performance car, but it has been the definitive sports car since 1989. The STI started as a crappy econobox sedan and was built-up so it actually went forward and turned a bit, albeit with minimal driver interaction. As such, it's not a sports car.

I actually agree with this. The Miata's amazing in the corners, and a FWD-based car just compare with the feel (not I said feel, not necessarily speed). To me it's a very pure sports car, even if it doesn't make 300whp.

Why not? What's the problem? What other low-production FR sports cars are out there for $25k besides the Miata? If Toyoda-san is out there on the 'ring giving the LF-A a tough time in the corners, what's stopping Toyota from marketing the FR-S as a baby LF-A and charging $30k or more?

Well, market viability, for one. As soon as you cross $25k, it no longer has mainstream, entry-level reach. And that's a dicey proposition in this economic climate. Just look at the 370Z... from a sales perspective, it's a dysmal failure. Ironically, people on these forums constantly bring it up as though it's a metric by which the FRS should be measured (yet how many actually bought the Z?).

Think Toyoda is already taking a big risk with the FRS, he'd need this to sell well--and hence not cater to a tiny niche.

[Praetendere]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

Now take $27.4k OTD and put that into 4-6% APR by 72months I hope you guys can afford a 400+/month payment + 140+/mo in insurance + 300+/mo gas. That's $840+ a month for this car can you guys realistically do that?

Let's do a poll on $840+ a month and also like previously mentioned who is buying in the first 6 months.

Excuse me, wtf are you talking about? Even at $4 a gallon, 75 gallons of gas a month at say 25 miles a gallon is close to 2000 miles a month, being conservative.

[bofa]

Originally Posted by Aki

I actually agree with this. The Miata's amazing in the corners, and a FWD-based car just compare with the feel (not I said feel, not necessarily speed). To me it's a very pure sports car, even if it doesn't make 300whp.



Well, market viability, for one. As soon as you cross $25k, it no longer has mainstream, entry-level reach. And that's a dicey proposition in this economic climate. Just look at the 370Z... from a sales perspective, it's a dysmal failure. Ironically, people on these forums constantly bring it up as though it's a metric by which the FRS should be measured (yet how many actually bought the Z?).

Think Toyoda is already taking a big risk with the FRS, he'd need this to sell well--and hence not cater to a tiny niche.

Not sure if this was directed toward me or not, but yes, I've bought two 350Zs (2006 base and 2008 enthusiast). I don't think anyone realistically is using it as any sort of metric. I most recently mentioned the Z referring to the argument of how prices are inflating.

The FR/FT should be an entry level sporty car... I'm personally not expecting Z-like engine numbers but handling and braking should be better imo given how we think this car will shape up.

Interesting though... if we look back at the Z car of the 80s and the AE86, the Z car was about double the price. 15K sounds like a good price now.