My letter made it into Car and Driver!

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by Deslock

The GC isn't lightweight.

haha ok, granted. I should have said something like the GC is was the only one in years that came even close

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by Mr 286

So, a die hard Toyota fan is going to put his money into Subaru to bolster their success rather than the company responsible for this car. Not supporting Toyota by buying the Subaru is REALLY going to encourage Toyota to stay focused on this market. Hopefully the new true Supra replacement happens before they realize that Americans are finicky about a set of badges from their own brand. Haha

Considering the cars are all manufactured in Subaru plants, I'm sure what I said may not be a very accurate picture of the circumstances, but I'm just saying it seems silly to me. Just my opinion.

Well, consider this: I have more pleasant experiences behind the wheel of and in the passenger seat of high-performance Subarus than I do in any Scion. I have about a dozen friends with modified WRX's and STi's. No friends with souped-up Scions. I also now work for Subaru (though I didn't when I wrote the article). Why would I get an FR-S when I could potentially get a BRZ Premium for the same price? I'm sure Toyota gets a cut of every BRZ produced, too, so it's whatever.

[Re~Mix]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

I have about a dozen friends with modified WRX's and STi's. No friends with souped-up Scions.

Was there a good reason to mod any Scion before this? Plus a WRX or STI is inherently a different type of car, any comparison is moot.

[Splat]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

Well, consider this: I have more pleasant experiences behind the wheel of and in the passenger seat of high-performance Subarus than I do in any Scion. I have about a dozen friends with modified WRX's and STi's. No friends with souped-up Scions. I also now work for Subaru (though I didn't when I wrote the article). Why would I get an FR-S when I could potentially get a BRZ Premium for the same price? I'm sure Toyota gets a cut of every BRZ produced, too, so it's whatever.

I would say that if most of us could get a Brz, for same 25k for Scion-- they would , well I can't say that. I personally would like the interior better, and the other things do not mean much to me. I like the midnight FR-S color better by far than the lighter Subaru blue. Then the front end.. could go either way, but I prefer the Scion. So, despite the fact that I could get a BRZ same price as you......at same price of FR-S, I would not. That means thankfully we all have a choice, to each thier own.

[sho220]

Originally Posted by Trojan_SC

If you read correctly, you would realize I didn't say they were "shite", I said that they are viewed as such. I already know that an xB is just a Corolla Ruminon and the xA/xD were also Toyotas everywhere else. My beef has always been with Scion's marketing strategy trying to be cool and hip to kids. I don't need that shit, sell me a bad ass car and that's it. I don't want need you putting a "image" on my car. Not to mention the excessive crap that too many Scion drivers make their cars into. Don't get me wrong, the Honda, Mitsu, and Nissan guys do it too, but not to this extent. Maybe if you don't live in Southern California, you don't get it. But I've seen this Scion crap since day 1 and I never liked it, even though I was 17 when the brand launched lol. They(Toyota corporate) gave the 86/FR-S to save a struggling brand, but they are only putting a band-aid on a gash. Just let it die already.

That's gotta be it. The land of fruits and nuts...

[Mrc@ptuning]

There's nothing wrong with the ft86 wearing a scion badge. It's just a badge, it's still a Toyota. I can't remember the last time Toyota built a FR sports car. Not having a sports car in their line up for years has not affected their growth. Does it really matter that it wears a Toyota badge instead of a Scion or even a Lexus badge. Saying that the ft86 should not wear the scion badge would be the same as saying the BRZ should not be wearing the Subaru badge. If we're talking about racing heritage, Subaru has little outside of WRC and I don't know of Subaru ever building a FR sports car but no one is saying that it shouldn't be wearing a Subaru badge.

There's a reason why the Frs is out selling the brz 3 to 1. Clearly no one cares if it's wearing a Toyota or Scion badge. It's nice to buy a car without hagggling. We don't really need $7k worth of unnecessary options that adds nothing to the performance or enjoyment of this all fun and no frills sports car. The only thing missing is some standard HIDs for better spirited driving at night.

But to each his own. Buy a brz if you gotta have a factory nav or leather seats. Buy an frs if you dont care for the brz options or color selection. Rebadge either car with a Toyota badge if that makes you happy.

MrC

[Demandred7]

Originally Posted by MVJ1975

Blame Toyota for allowing itself to be associated with boring appliances here in the US. In Japan (and other markets) Toyota has had interesting cars to sell, but ever since they created the Scion brand all of their "interesting" cars have gone under that brand here in North America.

For better or worse, anything that's not the rolling equivalent of a Kenny G concert gets sold as a Scion.

I don't mind that the FR-S is a Scion. If that's where it fits best based on Toyota's North American divisions, so be it. If they'd sold it as a GT-86, I'd have bought one too.

The only thing I don't like is the lack of options that are normally available on the GT-86. I personally have no use for farkles and gadgets, but lots of people do, and those people are by default being pushed to Subaru.

I do find it ironic that the FR-S has minimal options for customization (from the dealer) for a brand that is known for it. To date (at least in Canada): There are no fog light options, no spoiler options (unless you go to 5 Axis), no JDM OE exhaust tip options, ......, the list goes on and on. It has only been in the last couple weeks that a TRD exhaust has become available (and not the JDM version) and it is set at such an astronomical price that you could get two exhaust systems for the same price. It seems almost as if it was rushed to launch without being quite prepared. I had to order my shark fin antenna from Beat Sonic themselves. I had to order my exhaust tips from Amazon (.com (not .ca)).

On the other hand, a Toyota 86 goes for a much higher ticket price than the Scion does and I probably still would have bought the Scion "if" both were available. The most important bits and pieces that make this car what it is are still there. Do I "need" HID's? - No, Do I "need" a spoiler? - No....... What I like are options. And right now, they are not there - unless you go hunting. I guess, in the grand scheme of things, sometimes these other options are cheaper, but, I sometimes worry about that. As the saying goes, "Cheap - not good. Good - not cheap."

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by Mrc@ptuning

Saying that the ft86 should not wear the scion badge would be the same as saying the BRZ should not be wearing the Subaru badge. If we're talking about racing heritage, Subaru has little outside of WRC and I don't know of Subaru ever building a FR sports car but no one is saying that it shouldn't be wearing a Subaru badge.

JGTC/Super GT, Redline Time Attack, Global Time Attack, SCCA World Challenge, Rally America, Global Rallycross, and a brief stint in Formula One. Probably others I'm missing. True they have not built a RWD production sports car before this, but to say that they have no experience with RWD vehicles would be naive.

Originally Posted by Mrc@ptuning

There's a reason why the Frs is out selling the brz 3 to 1. Clearly no one cares if it's wearing a Toyota or Scion badge. It's nice to buy a car without hagggling. We don't really need $7k worth of unnecessary options that adds nothing to the performance or enjoyment of this all fun and no frills sports car. The only thing missing is some standard HIDs for better spirited driving at night.

The FR-S outsells the BRZ 3-1 because the BRZ was deemed a limited production model, not because it is more popular. The several month wait that most countries are experiencing is very indicative of that.

It's nice to buy a car without haggling? I'm pretty sure the biggest complaint about people who bought the FR-S was the "Pure Price" nonsense that dealers were using to tack on bull$#!t add-ons and charge thousands of dollars over the original sticker price. Not to mention the fact that once the hype dies down a bit, people will be able to get BRZ's at a discount where Scion buyers will still be stuck paying "Pure Price". You wouldn't have that problem if it were badged a Toyota, though admittedly I imagine the MSRP would be higher to compensate for the discounts they would have to offer.

The BRZ Premium costs $1,100 more than the FR-S and adds a nav unit and HID's, which is a perfectly appropriate price to pay for those options. To get the Limited with heater leather/Alcantara, keyless access and start, auto climate, fogs and rear spoiler, immobilizer and heated mirrors is an extra $2,200 on top of that. Again, perfectly appropriate amount of money to charge for those options. Nothing wrong with the FR-S as a car. Not everyone wants those options, Hell, I didn't even want them in my car until I got a daily driver that had all those options, and then it's hard to go back.

[sal]

It's just a badge... In business relevance, they need to brand it a Scion in NA to save the brand. And it seems to have worked.

[FantomRider]

It would be nice to have a limited version like BRZ, but then less people will be looking at BRZ L

[Linseal]

Originally Posted by norm24

Don't want to be associated to these guys:

1200 hp Scion TC F-Wing


.... Or do I???

Here's some nicer ones :P

[Mr 286]

Originally Posted by Deslock

Bingo

Nice "soundbite" from what I wrote haha

You'd make an excellent Fox News correspondent

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by Mr 286

Nice "soundbite" from what I wrote haha

You'd make an excellent Fox News correspondent

Sorry, I didn't think you'd mind that I quoted the only intelligent part of your post

BOOM!!!

[dem00n]

I think we should be grateful we even have these cars, Toyota makes majority of their money off all the other cars they made (Corolla, prius...etc). I think they just made this car to show that they still have the means to make a sports cars. Sorta how Porsche makes a bunch of money off those SUV's and then invests that money into making the flagship models.