My letter made it into Car and Driver!

[jmaryt]

"life's too short to be pissed off all the time,let's hold hands and sing!"

your first! my wife wouldn't understand,
but i get your point! makes sense to me!

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by oldpueblo

I can try as hard as I like, it's not going to change the fact that I'd have to drive a crazy number of hours to get one that isn't at all the color or trim I want. Are you seriously trying to say that flying somewhere to buy a car or renting a car for three weeks is normal behavior instead of an auto maker offering a few different options, which IS the norm? Why did Subaru decide to sell so limited a number compared to Toyota? Why did Toyota not offer the same trim levels? They are made at the same factory right? It just doesn't make sense and I'd really like to see the official reason behind it. If they are made at the same factory, wouldn't it make sense for them all to have the same trim options? To me that seems the efficient way to go instead of two out of three, etc. I'm using push to start as an example specifically.

Car makers are all about marketing strategy and not about efficiency or what makes sense logistically or otherwise. A marketing decision was made to make the BRZ be slightly more exclusive and low-volume, and to make the FR-S more basic and higher volume. This decision was based in part on the comparative position and volume levels of both brands in general. Therefore they deliberately put the more upscale features into the BRZ and kept them out of the FR-S.

BTW I'm not defending their strategy, only explaining what I've heard reported. I hate it too - I resent not being allowed to test drive the cars, being expected to just accept large markups, having to wait forever, and the general "we're an exclusive brand now" attitude at the dealerships. lol

[CaptainSlow]

Originally Posted by sho220

What makes previous Scions "shite"? Were they more prone to problems, or lower quality than the competition at specific price points?

I honestly don't know what everyone's bitching about. I had an xA when they first came out...was a great car for commuting back and forth to college.

I understand the "identity" that Toyota was trying to establish for Scion - but it doesn't mean you have to adopt it. That's like saying that everyone that goes out and buys a Kia Soul is going to turn into a break dancing hamster.

[Supermassive]

I originally thought i was going to rebadge my FR-S with Toyota emblems, but now that i am waiting for my P&L turbo kit to arrive, I think they are even more suitable. Having guys in their corvettes, camaros, and mustangs admit defeat to a Scion is worth it!

[Saber_TRD]

Originally Posted by Deslock

It costs an arm and a leg to add certain amenities and features to a car, especially when you're talking about retrofitting things like keyless entry, heated mirrors, HIDs, seats, dashboard controls, etc (smaller items like LEDs, lamp assemblies, lighted visor, auto leveling lamps, etc add up too). Your long list doesn't change the fact that these cars are mechanically identical except for branding and "some amenities/features and minor suspension differences".



I'm not claiming it was a smart decision, but Toyota and Scion have explained their reasoning: In the USA, they wanted to minimize direct competition with the BRZ and to increase sales to a younger demographic (while helping the struggling Scion brand). Small, lightweight, RWD, reasonably priced 2+2s haven't sold well here in a long time, so they're being cautious. But the BRZ is here, and we have some choices, so it's not a big deal

There's more to a car than just mechanicals and suspension differences change how the car behaves and handles, that's huge.

Actually, Toyota hasn't explained their reasoning. I know, I've asked them and the only answer they've given is "it was a marketing decision" which is very vague. They've never said they wanted to minimize competition with the BRZ and that doesn't make sense anyway, since they have to compete with it everywhere else in the world. I even called Toyota on making this decision to save the dying Scion brand and they responded by denying that, so quit blowing smoke. As stated before, BRZ isn't an option for someone like me. So it is a big deal, as they've lost a sale and a Toyota fan of over a decade.

[Trojan_SC]

Originally Posted by sho220

What makes previous Scions "shite"? Were they more prone to problems, or lower quality than the competition at specific price points?

If you read correctly, you would realize I didn't say they were "shite", I said that they are viewed as such. I already know that an xB is just a Corolla Ruminon and the xA/xD were also Toyotas everywhere else. My beef has always been with Scion's marketing strategy trying to be cool and hip to kids. I don't need that shit, sell me a bad ass car and that's it. I don't want need you putting a "image" on my car. Not to mention the excessive crap that too many Scion drivers make their cars into. Don't get me wrong, the Honda, Mitsu, and Nissan guys do it too, but not to this extent. Maybe if you don't live in Southern California, you don't get it. But I've seen this Scion crap since day 1 and I never liked it, even though I was 17 when the brand launched lol. They(Toyota corporate) gave the 86/FR-S to save a struggling brand, but they are only putting a band-aid on a gash. Just let it die already.

[norm24]

Don't want to be associated to these guys:

1200 hp Scion TC F-Wing


.... Or do I???

[einzlr]

crazy!

[Turbowned]

Oh boy, Chris Rado's tC...

I think you'd rather be associated with these guys:















Need I go on? Does this help explain?

Though I will give credit where credit is due: Scion has efforts in Formula D, Rally America, Redline Time Attack, and the Pro/Celebrity Race, among others I may not be aware of.

[Turbowned]

First post edited to show the original, unedited version of my letter. Just dug it out of my "Sent" folder:

Hello,

I wanted to thank Aaron Robinson for hitting the nail on the head in the August issue. As a loyal fan who's owned a half dozen Toyota MR2's and an AE86 Corolla (and whose friends have MR2's, Supras, Corollas, even a V8 Cressida!), you can imagine my reaction when I read the news last year that the FT-86 would be branded a Scion. This occurred when I began working for a Toyota dealer and was in training on the Scion brand. As I'm sitting in front of a computer screen being dictated what people in MY generation want in a car, and staring at pictures of absurdly-dressed hipsters as examples of "people like me", I find out that Toyota's saving grace would be bundled in with the "fresh" and "hip" Scion (decent cars with bad marketing). Images of local Toyota meets flooded my memory, with clusters of nicely preserved Celicas, Corollas, and MR2's all displayed in pritsine order while the Scions were shunted off in their own corner to play with their big stereos and neon lights.


All I can say is, "Bad move, Toyota". Not only because of Scion's wanna-be brand image and more importantly, lack of racing heritage (remember when Toyota was in WRC, Le Mans, F1, etc?) but also because Scion vehicles are offered as "mono-spec", meaning the rest of the world has trim levels and options to choose from, while we get stuck with only the bargain basement model; so that Toyota 86 GT-Limited that I wanted? The rest of the world gets it, but not here. It's bittersweet to say that my next rear-drive sports car will be wearing the Stars of Pleiades; amazing how the company that has never had a car like this before managed to pull off a brilliant marketing campaign AND offer trim levels that people actually desire, while the company that used to churn out iconic sports cars puts their next brain child under a dimly-lit stage here in America.


Best Regards,

-Corey Kononchuk
Marshfield, MA

[Trojan_SC]

Oh and just a random thought while we're on the topic, I CAN'T STAND THAT FACKING SCION JINGLE! lol

[Mr 286]

Now that I think about it, I wonder if people would be bitching about this if they kept the price close to the same and released it with a Lexus badge with standard leather seats. Interesting how status is an issue with a $25,000 car.

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by einzlr

The Genesis coupe was the first new one in years

The GC isn't lightweight.

Originally Posted by oldpueblo

Are you seriously trying to say that flying somewhere to buy a car or renting a car for three weeks is normal behavior instead of an auto maker offering a few different options, which IS the norm? Why did Subaru decide to sell so limited a number compared to Toyota? Why did Toyota not offer the same trim levels? They are made at the same factory right? It just doesn't make sense and I'd really like to see the official reason behind it. If they are made at the same factory, wouldn't it make sense for them all to have the same trim options?

Answers in order of the questions above:

• Sometimes, when a car is in high demand.
• Probably because it's a smaller company (less presence and demand).
• Discussed earlier in the thread.
• Yes.
• Answered earlier in the thread.

Originally Posted by Saber_TRD

There's more to a car than just mechanicals

How one feels about a car can be due to other factors, but ultimately a car's character, soul, passion, spirit, etc comes from its mechanical components (even those times when the whole is greater than the sum of its parts).

Originally Posted by Saber_TRD

suspension differences change how the car behaves and handles, that's huge.

So you've driven both the BRZ and FRS, and you found a huge difference in handling behavior?

Originally Posted by Saber_TRD

They've never said they wanted to minimize competition with the BRZ and that doesn't make sense anyway, since they have to compete with it everywhere else in the world.

It can make sense for a market that's tough for lightweight, RWD, 2+2s.

Originally Posted by Saber_TRD

I even called Toyota on making this decision to save the dying Scion brand and they responded by denying that, so quit blowing smoke.

It's not surprising that Toyota didn't want to admit to you that their Scion division is struggling.

Originally Posted by Saber_TRD

As stated before, BRZ isn't an option for someone like me. So it is a big deal, as they've lost a sale and a Toyota fan of over a decade.

Based on what you've written, the BRZ is an option for someone like you; it's just less convenient and doesn't have the badge you want. Every car is a compromise.

Originally Posted by Mr 286

Considering the cars are all manufactured in Subaru plants, I'm sure what I said may not be a very accurate picture of the circumstances

Bingo

[Vicious LED]

Originally Posted by norm24

Don't want to be associated to these guys:

1200 hp Scion TC F-Wing


.... Or do I???

Dude, I got a calendar from Scion Night last night, and this is the exact photo I'm staring at on my wall for December 2012