Dedicated race series?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by King Tut

I know the joke in the NASA Florida region is that TTC/PTC is SpecS2000.

I read that at first as "The joke is NASA", which made a lot of sense considering NASA is a joke

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by King Tut

As to the main question, as mentioned the new Spec Z class just came out using 2003+ 350Zs that can now be found used for less than $10k. We will probably have to wait till the FR-S/BRZ gets to a similar cost before people will be willing to purchase them and build them to go racing.

Agree with this in general, not too many will be buying these new and racing them. And there's showroom stock (eventually) for that hopefully...

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I read that at first as "The joke is NASA", which made a lot of sense considering NASA is a joke

I know your dislike of NASA, but I have never had a bad NASA weekend. Had a great weekend down at Sebring a couple weekends back. We had about 50 cars in the race group.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by King Tut

I know your dislike of NASA, but I have never had a bad NASA weekend. Had a great weekend down at Sebring a couple weekends back. We had about 50 cars in the race group.

If you had experienced Honda Challenge and the BS associated with it you would.

My main issue with NASA is their handling of DEs. I don't feel they are an appropriate place for students, at least in the SE/NOVA areas. The group in AZ actually does a great job and even they joke about how bad NASA is elsewhere.

[GTM_Challenge]

Originally Posted by King Tut

I know the joke in the NASA Florida region is that TTC/PTC is SpecS2000.

I would tend to agree with that. I competed this year at NASA Nationals in TTC......in an s2000

[GTM_Challenge]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

If you had experienced Honda Challenge and the BS associated with it you would.

My main issue with NASA is their handling of DEs. I don't feel they are an appropriate place for students, at least in the SE/NOVA areas. The group in AZ actually does a great job and even they joke about how bad NASA is elsewhere.

After having participated and moved up the NASA ranks in the SE, Texas, Midwest and Great Lakes regions, I can tell you that each region varies a lot in their practices, etc.

NASA is a business and each region is run independently. I feel that their HPDE program is great and is what makes their race groups more interesting and so popular - in most cases skilled drivers that have worked their way up the ranks vs. just paying to go to comp school and hoping in the drivers seat.

The HPDE program is the heart and soul of NASA and it's why NASA is gaining so much in popularity.

[GTM_Challenge]

Thinking about this idea of a spec FRS class - I think it would take large backing by Scion/Subaru to make it happen.

I can see a new VW TDI cup series with this Chassis - that or something similar to the MX-5 Cup.

[King Tut]

I gotta agree with GTM. I did nearly all my DEs in the NASA Southeast region, and I never had a bad instructor. I was lucky enough to get instructed by at least 5 SpecE30 racers which was my goal when I started doing DEs in my E30. I stayed in DE1 and DE2 with instructor for a long time getting as much instruction as I could since it didn't cost me anything. I did NASA Comp School with the Mid South region, and I have done events in the Floirda and the new NOLA region as well. All regions are run a little bit different, but it is nice to see the familiarity of the NASA system at all the events. I can go to a NASA event anywhere in the country and race my SpecE30 and know what to expect which is why I like it.

I would expect NASA to be the first to adopt an FR-S/BRZ spec series in the future. I also agree that good contingencies from the manufacturer and a tire provider would be key like the Spec Z series has from Nissan and BFG. The TDI Cup and MX-5 Cup are a little too professional. I am waiting to see the first FR-S/BRZ to compete in the Continental Tires ST class though.

[Dave-ROR]

As we've done in the past, we can agree to disagree. I just can't consider it the heart and soul when I've seen DE sessions cut short to allow races to continue after wrecks, etc.

If a spec class is created I would also expect NASA to do it.

I'd rather run it in ITR with SCCA.

I'm done with the topic of NASA for this thread now though.

[GTM_Challenge]

I think with how new the car is, the only way we are going to see a spec class at this point is a professional class such as the TDI cup or the MX-5 Cup, unfortunately.

The TDI cup was, unfortunately, short lived - a problem with the model IMO. VW owned all the cars and essentially leased them out to the drivers who were able to sell sponsorship spots on the car (or just foot the bill themselves).

The MX-5 cup model allows for a much longer running series IMO.

Id love to see a spec series, but don't think it will happen - maybe for the Long Beach Celebrity race? Switch from those TCs to FRS? If they do that and already have the cars prepped, then maybe a TDI cup model series would work.

[GTM_Challenge]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

As we've done in the past, we can agree to disagree. I just can't consider it the heart and soul when I've seen DE sessions cut short to allow races to continue after wrecks, etc.

If a spec class is created I would also expect NASA to do it.

I'd rather run it in ITR with SCCA.

I'm done with the topic of NASA for this thread now though.

I've seen that happen too - I didnt mean that the focus of NASA was the HPDE program - just to say that the HPDE program recruits many of the people who will end up racing later down the line.

[xwd]

I know at least one Asian country has a series starting up using the GT-86 but I can't remember which one. Of course they get the stripped down car meant for race prep which is cheaper than what we get here.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Last time I checked that is what most racers want, good clean side by side racing. If you want to win every weekend and race in a class of one then there are plenty of options out there. If you want to find out how good you are, then you race in a class with lots of cars. If you really want to find out how good you are then you race in a Spec class where all the cars are nearly the same. We definitely call them Spec Pinatas as well, but I think most of that comes from the over agression from the younger Spec Miata drivers that are trying to move up the Mazda ladder and are always looking to impress instead of going out there to enjoy themselves and bring the car back in one piece. I feel like SpecE30 is the perfect place to be. Are there guys that show up every weekend with a fresh set of perfectly shaved and heat cycled RA1s, sure. Are there guys that refresh their motor every year, sure. The true talent will show itself regardless of those things. Let the front runners be the front runners, and go out there and enjoy yourself.

I wasn't suggesting that at all. I've seen racers leave highly competitive classes because there was just too much carnage all the time. That was the side of the spectrum I was referring to. I race nose to tail and door to door with 944s, E30s, Neons, Miatae, RX7's.. etc etc. All different cars almost identical lap times and very close racing. I don't think anyone in their right mind would suggest that non-spec classes offer any less competition than spec classes or visa-versa given equivalence in popularity of class and level of drivers. Would you agree?

However the rest of what you say is all very good points. Cheers.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I'd rather run it in ITR with SCCA.

If you ever do this I will fly out and crew for you and of course... co-drive.