My letter made it into Car and Driver!

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by Snozzberries

http://www.speedhunters.com/2012/10/...ket-bunny-frs/

Case and point!

Case and point, that car was brought over from the U.S. probably because the wait to get an 86 in Japan is very long. They didn't swap the badges on a JDM 86, they imported the car back to Japan.

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by Saber_TRD

over 10k is not "minor" or "some" differences. That's a huge amount of differences. Check the list, it's quite long. A lot of which is already on the BRZ but it has it's own differences and in my case there is no trust worthy Subaru dealership within a 2 hours drive from here. Not to mention the BRZ isn't priced 10k+ over the FR-S.

It costs an arm and a leg to add certain amenities and features to a car, especially when you're talking about retrofitting things like keyless entry, heated mirrors, HIDs, seats, dashboard controls, etc (smaller items like LEDs, lamp assemblies, lighted visor, auto leveling lamps, etc add up too). Your long list doesn't change the fact that these cars are mechanically identical except for branding and "some amenities/features and minor suspension differences".

Originally Posted by Saber_TRD

The rest of the world was given choices, we were not. Don't say "but the BRZ is there" it's every where else too. Why can't the Toyota?

I'm not claiming it was a smart decision, but Toyota and Scion have explained their reasoning: In the USA, they wanted to minimize direct competition with the BRZ and to increase sales to a younger demographic (while helping the struggling Scion brand). Small, lightweight, RWD, reasonably priced 2+2s haven't sold well here in a long time, so they're being cautious. But the BRZ is here, and we have some choices, so it's not a big deal

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by Deslock

Small, lightweight, RWD, reasonably priced 2+2s haven't sold well here in a long time, so they're being cautious.

They might have sold better if there had been any. The Genesis coupe was the first new one in years and seems to do pretty well in spite of being disappointing in the handling department. The BRZ/FR-S/GT86 is the first exciting one in years.

[oldpueblo]

Originally Posted by Deslock

It costs an arm and a leg to add certain amenities and features to a car, especially when you're talking about retrofitting things like keyless entry, heated mirrors, HIDs, seats, dashboard controls, etc (smaller items like LEDs, lamp assemblies, lighted visor, auto leveling lamps, etc add up too). Your long list doesn't change the fact that these cars are mechanically identical except for branding and "some amenities/features and minor suspension differences".



I'm not claiming it was a smart decision, but Toyota and Scion have explained their reasoning: In the USA, they wanted to minimize direct competition with the BRZ and to increase sales to a younger demographic (while helping the struggling Scion brand). Small, lightweight, RWD, reasonably priced 2+2s haven't sold well here in a long time, so they're being cautious. But the BRZ is here, and we have some choices, so it's not a big deal

I get your reasoning, but the problem is I don't have a choice really if I need to buy a new car now and this is the one I want. If I want a BRZ (which I did) then I have to wait until April because of the limited number they are selling. Period. But I can get a Scion right now. That's a pretty shitty compromise to have to make.

[Re~Mix]

Originally Posted by oldpueblo

If I want a BRZ (which I did) then I have to wait until April because of the limited number they are selling. Period. But I can get a Scion right now. That's a pretty shitty compromise to have to make.

Honestly, you didn't try hard enough. If you're willing to go the extra mile (or 300) you could have one by now. Markups aside, there are still a few that sit on the lot for 24-48 hours before being scooped up.

I wanted this car bad enough (in any form) to rent a car for 3 weeks while I waited.

I choose the FR-S for a few main reasons
1. Scion offered a new grad discount and a reasonable 3% APR that Subaru would not match and I could not hope to get elsewhere without a cosigner.
2. The front end of the FR-S is simply sexier, no denying that (minus those BRZ headlights!)
3. I'm a minimalist. Leather, a push button start, etc. didn't do it for me

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by oldpueblo

I have to wait until April because of the limited number they are selling. Period. But I can get a Scion right now. That's a pretty shitty compromise to have to make.

1st world problems.

[oldpueblo]

Originally Posted by Re~Mix

Honestly, you didn't try hard enough. If you're willing to go the extra mile (or 300) you could have one by now. Markups aside, there are still a few that sit on the lot for 24-48 hours before being scooped up.

I wanted this car bad enough (in any form) to rent a car for 3 weeks while I waited.

I choose the FR-S for a few main reasons
1. Scion offered a new grad discount and a reasonable 3% APR that Subaru would not match and I could not hope to get elsewhere without a cosigner.
2. The front end of the FR-S is simply sexier, no denying that (minus those BRZ headlights!)
3. I'm a minimalist. Leather, a push button start, etc. didn't do it for me

I can try as hard as I like, it's not going to change the fact that I'd have to drive a crazy number of hours to get one that isn't at all the color or trim I want. Are you seriously trying to say that flying somewhere to buy a car or renting a car for three weeks is normal behavior instead of an auto maker offering a few different options, which IS the norm? Why did Subaru decide to sell so limited a number compared to Toyota? Why did Toyota not offer the same trim levels? They are made at the same factory right? It just doesn't make sense and I'd really like to see the official reason behind it. If they are made at the same factory, wouldn't it make sense for them all to have the same trim options? To me that seems the efficient way to go instead of two out of three, etc. I'm using push to start as an example specifically.

Originally Posted by rice_classic

1st world problems.

You realize that has absolutely no meaning in this context right, and is just about as relevant as adding "your mom" to the end of any sentence?

[Re~Mix]

Could be that subaru was just expecting less demand than they actually ran into. Allocations for next year might be much higher.

When you try to be the first adopter of anything you submit yourself to a company's will somewhat (unfortunately). Same goes for new phones, etc. Stand in line and put up with the design hiccups or wait half a year and have your pick.

[Trojan_SC]

Originally Posted by Kamus

Exactly, i don't get it, why the redundancy?

I think i explained why "i don't get it" very well.

Not really, you just explained that toyota has made boring cars for about the last decade. Which is definitely true. Yet you didn't even mention anything about the Scion brand and brand image. So either you haven't been in the car scene long enough to see what shite Scions have been looked upon as or you (again) just don't get it.

And you can't really say "oh well why do you care what other people think?" That's a stupid cop-out because frankly I am "other people" and I f*cking can't stand Scion, the image the brand and it's consumers have given themselves. The ONLY reason I didn't buy the BRZ was the fact that I liked the front end of the 86 better and Toyota conversion was easily possible.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by oldpueblo

You realize that has absolutely no meaning in this context right, and is just about as relevant as adding "your mom" to the end of any sentence?

"Your mom" would not be an accurate comparison.

"Quit yer bitchin'" might be. But I get your point.


so....





Your mom

[sho220]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

However I feel that Subaru did a much better job marketing the BRZ than Scion did. There was much more information available, more advertising, more exciting stuff about the BRZ coming out than the FR-S when March rolled around and pre-orders were available. Scion's only really recently started to promote their car more. When these cars were coming out it felt practically like a secret on Scion's end; aside from the first 86 Program, I hadn't seen much of anything. Some people even reported going to dealers a month prior to the car's release and the sales staff knew nothing about the car. Meanwhile at (most) Subaru dealerships, salesmen got advanced training on the car and there was plenty of info coming out for people; you would have thought it would be the other way around given the fact that the BRZ would be built in such fewer numbers.

I've been seeing FR-S commercials, print ads, billboards, etc. for months. I have yet to see a BRZ ad anywhere...?

[sho220]

Originally Posted by CDNFRSGuy

One thing I find funny about people whining about "low-spec" the FR-S is seems to easily forget that many of the GT86 upgrades are already included in the price. For the lowest base price in the world we get the upgraded leather steering wheel, upgraded gauge cluster, TPMS sensors, BT stereo, stainless pedals, heated mirrors (CA), 17" wheels, winter mats (CA), Limited-slip Diff and maybe something else I can't think of.

Either way, our "base" model includes a heck of a lot more than a base model Toyota 86!

They could have crafted these cars out of solid gold and sold them for five dollars and people would find something to whine about...

[Rayme]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

I pre-ordered a BRZ in March, but had to give it up due to unforeseen financial crap. I'm getting one early next Spring when my dealer gets another allocation.

My perspective is that I wanted a Toyota 86 GT Limited like the rest of the world gets, but as I am unable to get that in this country, I have chosen a BRZ Limited because it offers the same options, and I certainly don't dislike Subaru (or I wouldn't be selling them) even though a rear-drive sports car certainly doesn't fit their brand image, either.

However I feel that Subaru did a much better job marketing the BRZ than Scion did. There was much more information available, more advertising, more exciting stuff about the BRZ coming out than the FR-S when March rolled around and pre-orders were available. Scion's only really recently started to promote their car more. When these cars were coming out it felt practically like a secret on Scion's end; aside from the first 86 Program, I hadn't seen much of anything. Some people even reported going to dealers a month prior to the car's release and the sales staff knew nothing about the car. Meanwhile at (most) Subaru dealerships, salesmen got advanced training on the car and there was plenty of info coming out for people; you would have thought it would be the other way around given the fact that the BRZ would be built in such fewer numbers.

I respect your opinion, but I think the buyer's background has a lot to do with how you perceive the brand and I think it's pretty useless to persuade each other of our own arguments.

Now that we know your story, I understand that you've seen scion for a long time and hates the whole thing about them, and that you've carefully followed the FT86 development and wanted a Toyota GT86, but now you're pissed at Toyota because you can't get that version you saw with all the little doodads and region specific changes, and the BRZ don't cut it because you just wrote the letter about it.

My story with the 86. Since the beginning of the toybaru story, I read about that 200 hp RWD that comes standard with LSD and a boxer engine that will weight 2800 lbs. Never really looked more into it than the updates on jalopnik/autoblog, then I see that the car is finally being available here and seriously looked into it. Scion has been around for a very short time and has basicly no general opinion except from the tuner crowd that we know they are just economy cars...basicly just toyotas.

So it's hard to sell me on a point, because I'm lucky and got all that I wanted, a 200 hp RWD with LSD, lightweight created by toyota/subaru.

I think they should have made it into the cheapest lexus, to complement the LFA

Life' too short to be pissed off all the time, let's all hold hands and sing

[sho220]

Originally Posted by Trojan_SC

Not really, you just explained that toyota has made boring cars for about the last decade. Which is definitely true. Yet you didn't even mention anything about the Scion brand and brand image. So either you haven't been in the car scene long enough to see what shite Scions have been looked upon as or you (again) just don't get it.

And you can't really say "oh well why do you care what other people think?" That's a stupid cop-out because frankly I am "other people" and I f*cking can't stand Scion, the image the brandand it's consumers have given themselves. The ONLY reason I didn't buy the BRZ was the fact that I liked the front end of the 86 better and Toyota conversion was easily possible.

What makes previous Scions "shite"? Were they more prone to problems, or lower quality than the competition at specific price points?