My letter made it into Car and Driver!

[PMok]

Originally Posted by Kamus

OK, so i understand that Toyota made some cars that you consider "iconic"

But i really don't get this stupid hate vs the Scion Brand at all. Think about it, you want a Toyota badge instead... because nothing screams passion like the brand that is mostly identified with appliances like the Camry and Prius right?

the average person does associate Toyota with its most recent/current products like the Camry and Prius. But we are auto enthusiasts here. Most auto enthusiasts and Toyota enthusiasts still associate the brand with the AE86, Supra, MR2, Celica All-Trac, etc... and those of us who remember the great cars they used to make, resent the current beige-ness, and wish Toyota made great cars again. The FT86 was a chance for them to do that. But instead, at least in the U.S., they threw that opportunity away.

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by whaap

I'll be the first to admit I wasn't excited to hear the 86 would be badged a Scion but there is a side benefit I hadn't considered before buying the FR-S. I love pulling up next to a high end badge (like BMW) at a stop light and think to myself: "eat your heart out, you've just been face slapped by a Scion!!"

Actually, if you pulled up next to me I'd smile and wave and congratulate you on your car

@Turbowned, nicely written! Congrats on getting published and keep up the good work!

[Shagaliscious]

Originally Posted by Kamus

OK, so i understand that Toyota made some cars that you consider "iconic"

But i really don't get this stupid hate vs the Scion Brand at all. Think about it, you want a Toyota badge instead... because nothing screams passion like the brand that is mostly identified with appliances like the Camry and Prius right?

Although, people will always hear what they want to hear, and believe what they want to believe.

[Deslock]

I disagree with Aaron Robinson's assertion that it should've been called a Celica, which hasn't been RWD since the 3rd generation in the mid 1980s (the same argument can be applied to the Corolla, but the AE86 is widely recognized as having its own identity).

Aaron Robinson also brought up Scion's lack of pedigree. Anyone who cares about racing heritage should know enough about these cars to understand that they're just rebranded Toyotas, with the exception of the tC (which shares its engine with the Camry and its chassis with the Avensis).

Toyota made a marketing decision to launch a new division because their clientele has been aging. Marketing is -by definition- superficial, as are most complaints about the Scion brand. Apart from some amenities/features and minor suspension differences, the BRZ, GT86, and FRS are all the same anyway.

So IDGAF that it's a Scion. I'm just thankful that we got the best parts of Subaru (engineering, chassis, engine) and Toyota (planning, development, design, fuel system, engine tuning) in a lightweight, reasonably-priced, RWD 2+2. That's what's really important.

[Splat]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

DISCLAIMER: This letter was not intended to insult the Scion FR-S or any of it's owners; it is merely a lamentation of Toyota's decision to market the Toyota 86 as a Scion in the U.S. Put your flamethrowers away.

My friend called me the other day saying he loved my article in Car and Driver magazine, and I honestly forgot I even wrote one! It was in response to Aaron Robinson's August column titled "It's Time for Toyota to Kill Scion", seen here: http://www.caranddriver.com/columns/...l-scion-column




Feel free to agree or disagree, but remember that I have no disrespect for anyone who bought an FR-S, just disappointment at Toyota.

do you own either ? FR-S or BRZ, I am just trying to get an angle on your persepective.

[Jeff86]

I bought the Scion because the front is more to my liking. That's more important to me than a badge. Otherwise, its the same car. With the massively growing aftermarket, you can make this car whatever "edition" you like.

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by Splat

do you own either ? FR-S or BRZ, I am just trying to get an angle on your persepective.

I pre-ordered a BRZ in March, but had to give it up due to unforeseen financial crap. I'm getting one early next Spring when my dealer gets another allocation.

My perspective is that I wanted a Toyota 86 GT Limited like the rest of the world gets, but as I am unable to get that in this country, I have chosen a BRZ Limited because it offers the same options, and I certainly don't dislike Subaru (or I wouldn't be selling them) even though a rear-drive sports car certainly doesn't fit their brand image, either.

However I feel that Subaru did a much better job marketing the BRZ than Scion did. There was much more information available, more advertising, more exciting stuff about the BRZ coming out than the FR-S when March rolled around and pre-orders were available. Scion's only really recently started to promote their car more. When these cars were coming out it felt practically like a secret on Scion's end; aside from the first 86 Program, I hadn't seen much of anything. Some people even reported going to dealers a month prior to the car's release and the sales staff knew nothing about the car. Meanwhile at (most) Subaru dealerships, salesmen got advanced training on the car and there was plenty of info coming out for people; you would have thought it would be the other way around given the fact that the BRZ would be built in such fewer numbers.

[CDNFRSGuy]

One thing I find funny about people whining about "low-spec" the FR-S is seems to easily forget that many of the GT86 upgrades are already included in the price. For the lowest base price in the world we get the upgraded leather steering wheel, upgraded gauge cluster, TPMS sensors, BT stereo, stainless pedals, heated mirrors (CA), 17" wheels, winter mats (CA), Limited-slip Diff and maybe something else I can't think of.

Either way, our "base" model includes a heck of a lot more than a base model Toyota 86!

[Snozzberries]

Originally Posted by ST185RC

In the homeland that this car came from people are disappointed that it didn't come as a scion and are rebadging it a Scion to have a unique look. The whole world is just full of disappointment....

http://www.speedhunters.com/2012/10/...ket-bunny-frs/

Case and point!

[Saber_TRD]

Originally Posted by Deslock

I disagree with Aaron Robinson's assertion that it should've been called a Celica, which hasn't been RWD since the 3rd generation in the mid 1980s (the same argument can be applied to the Corolla, but the AE86 is widely recognized as having its own identity).

Aaron Robinson also brought up Scion's lack of pedigree. Anyone who cares about racing heritage should know enough about these cars to understand that they're just rebranded Toyotas, with the exception of the tC (which shares its engine with the Camry and its chassis with the Avensis).

Toyota made a marketing decision to launch a new division because their clientele has been aging. Marketing is -by definition- superficial, as are most complaints about the Scion brand. Apart from some amenities/features and minor suspension differences, the BRZ, GT86, and FRS are all the same anyway.

So IDGAF that it's a Scion. I'm just thankful that we got the best parts of Subaru (engineering, chassis, engine) and Toyota (planning, development, design, fuel system, engine tuning) in a lightweight, reasonably-priced, RWD 2+2. That's what's really important.

Originally Posted by CDNFRSGuy

One thing I find funny about people whining about "low-spec" the FR-S is seems to easily forget that many of the GT86 upgrades are already included in the price. For the lowest base price in the world we get the upgraded leather steering wheel, upgraded gauge cluster, TPMS sensors, BT stereo, stainless pedals, heated mirrors (CA), 17" wheels, winter mats (CA), Limited-slip Diff and maybe something else I can't think of.

Either way, our "base" model includes a heck of a lot more than a base model Toyota 86!

If you check my sig, you'll see a list of all the difference between the FR-S and the GT 86 Limited that I and others have been able to find. I personally was looking into doing a conversion from FR-S to GT 86 Limited but Toyota wouldn't help me get the parts, even though I was willing to pay. The 3rd party sellers who I can get some, not all, of the parts from are not a better option either. I hadn't even gotten to the expensive stuff, like the seats and push start with dual climate control and I was already looking at 10k before having everything installed. Shipping and the 3rd party seller's cut drives the price up, but over 10k is not "minor" or "some" differences. That's a huge amount of differences. Check the list, it's quite long. A lot of which is already on the BRZ but it has it's own differences and in my case there is no trust worthy Subaru dealership within a 2 hours drive from here. Not to mention the BRZ isn't priced 10k+ over the FR-S.

We really didn't get that much with the FR-S, they cut a lot out of it so they could manufacture those Scion and FR-S specific badges for the car for a single market area. Instead of using the Toyota and 86 badges that were already being made, in the same plant for the rest of the world, for a much larger market area(s).

The trim levels would have offered a cheaper trim than the FR-S as the FR-S is a G 86 with most of the options. So you could have ditched those options and had a cheaper price. At the same time, people like myself, could have bought a GT 86 or Limited and obtained all the options and features we wanted in addition to our performance car. I was planning on daily driving this machine, I'm not going to rock a roll cage and completely strip the thing down, I want creature comforts too. That's the problem the OP is having. The rest of the world was given choices, we were not. Don't say "but the BRZ is there" it's every where else too. Why can't the Toyota?

[Linseal]

Originally Posted by Tim_Asphalt_FRS

At the time of the 240Z, Nissan didn't exist in the US, they were all Datsun until the mid 80s.

Notice how I said "are" not "were". I know Nissan didn't exist. I'm talking about the current 240z owners that have to tell people they have a Datsun.

Originally Posted by spitz

Also, I'm not entirely sure of your definition of 'riced out,' but I can assure there are more modified Scions (FR-S, TC, iQ, xB, xD) modified than Subarus (Impreza, Legacy, Outback, Baja, BRZ, Crosstrek, Tribeca, Forester). Scion's whole marketing strategy is to give you little, so you can do more yourself. Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't recall ever seeing a 'riced out' Outback, Baja, Crosstrek, Tribeca, Forester, or even Legacy.

Must be a location thing then. I see very few modded Scions here in Austin, maybe a dropped xB or tC with an exhaust here or there. I see way more WRXs, 240SXs, and MS3s modded up, dropped, and with body kits here than anything else. Maybe that's because we have Cobb Tuning here in town, or maybe because we nice windy roads to drive on

All I'm saying is stop worrying about the labels people! A ZN6 is a ZN6!

[Mr 286]

I personally find this issue laughable. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Scion brand. They just didn't have a car worth me buying until this. From the moment I poked around the BRZ that some Subaru execs drove up in from Cali this February as a preview; I knew the car was going to be a hit. I could see the Toyota love in its design. Reminded me of my MR2. The car is awesome and it speaks for itself.

lol ... First world problems.

[ks22732]

Originally Posted by whaap

Yeah, it's really a kick to be driving a little semi-exotic with a Scion badge. I love it!

I think so! Yesterday some guy in a minivan pulled up next to me and asked me "Is that a porshe??" couldn't help but laugh.

[Linseal]

Should've been an Eagle