Winter

[2forme]

Originally Posted by jmaryt

and "weight" the heavier the vehicle,the better!

I'm sorry, I can't agree with this at all. Guess it's the physics part of me.

The problem in the winter is grip. The problem with grip is usually while turning or stopping.

Basic physics law states an object in motion tends to stay in motion. You need more force to stop or turn a heavy car than a light car.

My personal experience confirms this. A light car with skinny snow tires is better than a heavy car with snow tires. Mid engine is even better.

[jmaryt]

what about getting going? you need weight for that! as far as turning and stopping?
throttle control,and proper application of brakes (intermittent) ,along with downshifting,utilizing the engines compression as a ''brake" gets it done! just sayin'

[2forme]

Originally Posted by jmaryt

what about getting going? you need weight for that! as far as turning and stopping?
throttle control,and proper application of brakes (intermittent) does it,along with downshifting,utilizing the engines compression as a ''brake" gets it done! just sayin'

I know what you're trying to say. A 2000 lb car is heavy enough to get going with the proper tire.

Normally, I wouldn't care about the argument, but telling people to get heavy cars for safety in the snow is just flat out wrong. That's why a majority of cars I see in snow banks or off the road are SUV's. A lighter car with snow tires will run circles around a heavier car.

Just want people reading this thread to be safe

[jmaryt]

sorry don't agree! (bullshit!) suv's and other heavier cars and trucks are much better in the snow! generally,the people you see off the road in the winter are there because they were going too fast for the conditions,
ie: learning how to drive in winter! learning to understand,you HAVE to slow down in the winter,because of limiting traction conditions!
light cars ''suck" in the snow,and i know because i have driven them,and i KNOW how to drive in the crap! been driving in ALL kinds of weather in ALL kinds of cars for over 45 years! "accident free!" you want to be safe? do yourself a favor,and buy a "heavier" car or truck and put weight (ballast) in the back as much as possible,along with "dedicated" snow tires,THEN learn to ''slow down" and drive responsibly for the conditions encountered! 4wheel drive helps as well,BUT you must drive ''responsibly" when it snows!.THIS is the key!

[2forme]

Lol Physics is physics man. Sorry, but you're wrong. Sucks to hear, but like I said, this is about other peoples safety based on the advice in this thread more than a pissing contest.

Think of it this way. You have two cars. Car L is 2000lbs, and Car H is 3000lbs. There is a threshold of force in driving before traction is lost and the car no longer follows the path intended. This threshold is present in dry, wet, and snowy conditions. Likewise, the threshold goes down in the same order Dry > Wet > Snowy.

If both cars are traveling at 45 MPH, it's going to take more force to stop or turn Car H than Car L under any road condition. The question here is whether or not that force breaks the traction threshold. Because Car H requires more force, it's going to break that threshold before Car L in all scenarios. There's a reason why a Lotus Elise out handles/brakes a Camaro.

Now, this is all given equal drive trains, weight distribution, and tires. I'm sorry your experiences with lighter cars was sub par. But I'm going to blame that more on other factors such as drive train, tires, and driver.

Again, we are talking about people's safety here, so please stop spreading misinformation.

[jmaryt]

again! don't buy it! sorry! and don't care (two shits!) about calculations! its the driving experience that counts,that, and an awful big "ass" heavy vehicle! weight is ''critical",that and learn HOW to drive in the snow! screw physics! 'SLOW DOWN" and live,and stay on the road! ehe! he! he!

[2forme]

Originally Posted by jmaryt

again! don't buy it! sorry! and don't care (two shits!) about calculations! its the driving experience that counts,that, and an awful big "ass" heavy vehicle! weight is ''critical",that and learn HOW to drive in the snow! screw physics! 'SLOW DOWN" and live,and stay on the road! ehe! he! he!

It's got electrolytes! It's what plants crave!

This post just proves my point.

To all the sane people out there reading this thread. Lighter is definitely better in the snow. If you need a cheap winter beater, grab a mid 90s corolla or something. They were very light and great in the snow with proper tires

[jmaryt]

light is light=not good in snow! front wheel drive better,
because of ''weight" (there's that word again!) "bias" in the front (engine)
over the driving wheels!

[2forme]

The shnozberries taste like shnozberries.

I sincerely hope someone reading this doesn't take your "advice" seriously.

[Superhatch]

Originally Posted by 2forme

It's got electrolytes! It's what plants crave!

Awesome.

[Superhatch]

Originally Posted by Silp3

The Toyo Garits have been my favorite so far. I feel there are a lot of tire brands, but most people just stick to the mainstream tire and what Tirerack says

These look like a good tire...but they are $200/corner in a 215/45/17!

[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by 2forme

The shnozberries taste like shnozberries.

I sincerely hope someone reading this doesn't take your "advice" seriously.

i sincerely hope they don't read your advice as well! he! he! he!
i'll bet you are the type that would love to have a frs plow your road in the winter instead of a ten wheel dump truck with "ballast" in the back? he! he! he!
good luck with that!.just sayin' "weight is king"

[2forme]

Originally Posted by jmaryt

i sincerely hope they don't read your advice as well! he! he! he!
i'll bet you are the type that would love to have a frs plow your road in the winter instead of a ten wheel dump truck with "ballast" in the back? he! he! he!
good luck with that!.just sayin' "weight is king"

Not quite, I'm the type who will probably get a nice little winter beater and laugh at the people with big heavy cars who end up off the road.

But hey, screw physics and how the world actually works right? Just make sure you tell everyone what kind of car you're driving this winter so we can stay away from you.

[DSPographer]

Snow physics:
Well, saying the physics of light vs heavy cars being better in the snow is simple is- over simplifying. Heavy cars need proportionally more force to turn or accelerate. But, tire friction is proportional to downforce which (without a wing) is based on weight. So, the two first order effects cancel and either a light or heavy car can be better in slippery conditions depending on how it puts its weight on the road. Typically the car weight to tire width ratio will be greater for a big heavy SUV than for a sports car. This makes SUVs worse for warm/dry cornering and better for snow/hydro-planing conditions. Fitting narrow winter tires with snow tread with deep grooves can make a big difference for the light sports car though. As long as you have the right tires and know how to drive, I think you should be able to navigate normal roads in a BRZ given the car chassis clears the snow. Then driving safely depends on driving slowly and gently enough to stay in your lane and stop in time. That is where I think SUV drivers go wrong. Even though a four-wheel-drive car feels much more sure-footed starting up in snow, its real advantage in cornering is not that great. Now the acceleration needed to corner (V^2/R) is proportional to speed squared, so it only takes a small speed increase to wipe out any cornering advantage of the big SUV in snow. So, a false sense of security in the snow leads to the SUVs in the ditches.