Scion TC owners bitter?

[wlfpck]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

I've been to way more than you I'm sure, and while there are a large part of the non-performance enthusiast....they are STILL enthusiast. And there are performance minded enthusiast as well, so I find this to be off base in your observation.

I still see my tC as the toyota version of the civic coupe or the camary coupe. (seeing how the solara got axed).

To put in perspective... there are tons of people and tons of aftermarket support for civics, jettas (Non-GLI), and Golfs. There is probably always going to be a segment/market that is targeted towards the econo cars.

The 86 is a sports car. The tC is as stated above, the equivalence of a "carolla coupe". Not a sports car. The same tC driver that gets pissed/bitter about the fr-s probably gets bitter/pissed about the WRX, GTI, BRZ, Mustang, Ralliart, Genesis Coupe, Camaro, etc.

Don't really think their attitude is limited to just the FR-S. They probably share their generic crappy attitude towards anything that is better. Problem is that being a "carolla coupe" is that a lot of things are better stock for stock (NOTE: STOCK for STOCK. This excludes all "but I turboed my tC or w/e arguments.)

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by Tanuki

I will be surprised when I see a TC at a race track beating anything. If you put enough money in any car it can be kind of fast. But if you put the same money in the right car, you can be really fast.

Supra owners didnt talk crap about Celica owners because celica owners never compared their fwd celicas to the rwd beast that was a supra. I would still take a celica over a tc though.

You should get out of the house more often.

[muffinman]

Originally Posted by Tanuki

I will be surprised when I see a TC at a race track beating anything. If you put enough money in any car it can be kind of fast. But if you put the same money in the right car, you can be really fast.
.

i personally know of 2 (1st gen)turbo tc's running low 13's/high 12's here. street tires and no crazy motor builds in those cars. of course the 2nd gen's price went up , but they got a good deal imo. 18K for a new car+turbo kit+ rims and they were done for less than the price of a gti. if fwd was what i wanted, i wouldve looked into doing the same

[Tanuki]

Not a drag strip. Any car can be fast on a drag strip. If you want the fastest of the drag racers, buy an srt4 neon. Those are cheaper to make fast. I am referring to tc's on road race courses, but actually I have a friend who wins races in hers, so I stand corrected.

[russv]

Originally Posted by wlfpck

I own a tC and I'm the farthest thing from bitter. I bought my tC1 in 2007 while I was in college and it is completely paid off.

For the price of the tC, my choices in the market were limited to the corolla, civic, golf (NOT gti), Jetta. For the price, the tC had WAY more features (i.e. sun roof, alloy wheels, etc).

I picked up a civic lx equivalent with more features for the same price. It gets me from point A to point B. I think it looks better than the 07 civics.

Half the time I drive under 60 mph anyways because of all the traffic jams during rush hour.

People need to realize what the tC is. It was meant as a competitor to the civic. People can argue that it competes with the Si... and even then I think it's a stretch. In my mind, it is a toyota version of the civic coupe since the corolla doesn't come as a coupe.

As for the OP...

Maybe it's the area you're in. Honestly, I don't know.

I came close to buying a TC before I heard about the FRS. I liked the idea of a hatchback with decent power and a 6 speed manual.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by wlfpck

I still see my tC as the toyota version of the civic coupe or the camary coupe. (seeing how the solara got axed).

To put in perspective... there are tons of people and tons of aftermarket support for civics, jettas (Non-GLI), and Golfs. There is probably always going to be a segment/market that is targeted towards the econo cars.

The 86 is a sports car. The tC is as stated above, the equivalence of a "carolla coupe". Not a sports car. The same tC driver that gets pissed/bitter about the fr-s probably gets bitter/pissed about the WRX, GTI, BRZ, Mustang, Ralliart, Genesis Coupe, Camaro, etc.

Don't really think their attitude is limited to just the FR-S. They probably share their generic crappy attitude towards anything that is better. Problem is that being a "carolla coupe" is that a lot of things are better stock for stock (NOTE: STOCK for STOCK. This excludes all "but I turboed my tC or w/e arguments.)

Don't think this is the norm thinking of a tC driver. Secondly, yea you would be best to exclude the "turboed" ones, because they start walking on those cars you mentioned when they are turboed.

It is no slouch on boost that's for sure. And it still stacks up when you modify those other cars mentioned as well, not just against their stock versions.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by Tanuki

Not a drag strip. Any car can be fast on a drag strip. If you want the fastest of the drag racers, buy an srt4 neon. Those are cheaper to make fast. I am referring to tc's on road race courses, but actually I have a friend who wins races in hers, so I stand corrected.

I was specifically referring to road courses when I said you should get out of the house more often.

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

I've been to way more than you I'm sure, and while there are a large part of the non-performance enthusiast....they are STILL enthusiast. And there are performance minded enthusiast as well, so I find this to be off base in your observation.

Camry NASCAR -to- Production car, there is nothing there.

Rado's tC -to-production car....it IS a Scion tC period. Same motor, chassis, etc..

You're right, because I got sick of going to Toyota meets that became Scion meets with a Camry or Celica peppered in here n' there... Just because you put an intake, exhaust, springs and wheels on your car doesn't make you a performance enthusiast. There are some people that take these cars to the track; why I don't know. However by and large, the tC isn't bought by true performance enthusiasts. It's a sporty coupe, not a sport coupe. There's a big difference.

Fine, it's about as close to the production car as the Super GT GT300 BRZ is to the production BRZ. I knew there would be at least one... Same engine block and unibody, and that's where the similarities end.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

You're right, because I got sick of going to Toyota meets that became Scion meets with a Camry or Celica peppered in here n' there... Just because you put an intake, exhaust, springs and wheels on your car doesn't make you a performance enthusiast. There are some people that take these cars to the track; why I don't know. However by and large, the tC isn't bought by true performance enthusiasts. It's a sporty coupe, not a sport coupe. There's a big difference.

Fine, it's about as close to the production car as the Super GT GT300 BRZ is to the production BRZ. I knew there would be at least one... Same engine block and unibody, and that's where the similarities end.

If there were no true performance enthusiast in the tC crowd, a stroker kit from Brian Crower to bring it up to a 2.6L would not exist, because there wouldn't be a market. Or there wouldn't be 6-8 different turbo companies. Or there wouldn't be a world record holder with the name Scion tC beside it, for nearly every track in the US. I think you speak from a position of limited experience and research. There are tons of YouTube vids of tCs whopping on other cars on and off the track (road course). Heck even one of the vendors on this very forum (Ptuning) has a two time back to back champion Time Attack tC in the Modified class. Aftermarket for the tC rivals nearly any other "performance oriented" vehicle out there. They have way to much stuff they can do to that car for it NOT to have true performance enthusiast in its demographic.

And you are wrong still on the GT300 BRZ to production car comparison again. The GT300 doesn't even run the OEM motor. Rado's tC is still closer to production than that car is.

[JDMenrique]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

If there were no true performance enthusiast in the tC crowd, a stroker kit from Brian Crower to bring it up to a 2.6L would not exist, because there wouldn't be a market. Or there wouldn't be 6-8 different turbo companies. Or there wouldn't be a world record holder with the name Scion tC beside it, for nearly every track in the US. I think you speak from a position of limited experience and research. There are tons of YouTube vids of tCs whopping on other cars on and off the track (road course). Heck even one of the vendors on this very forum (Ptuning) has a two time back to back champion Time Attack tC in the Modified class. Aftermarket for the tC rivals nearly any other "performance oriented" vehicle out there. They have way to much stuff they can do to that car for it NOT to have true performance enthusiast in its demographic.

And you are wrong still on the GT300 BRZ to production car comparison again. The GT300 doesn't even run the OEM motor. Rado's tC is still closer to production than that car is.

This topic isnt about whether a tC is fast or makes power modded. Civic's get modded the most and they are the most common cars out there, heck Ive even seen Geo Metro's with turbo kits. Thats not the point.

The point is that, with my personal view growing up in south florida where a tC was a dime a dozen, for the most part tC owners are douche bags. I only knew 2 owners that where down to earth and didnt think their $19k coupe with bolt ons was a corvette.

That being said a lot of ppl fell into the category: tC's, SI's, Cobalt SS's. The list goes on.

[Turbowned]

Anything can go fast when you invest the money in it. There's always a few weirdos out there... But to put this in perspective, the first gen tC gets classed in H Stock for SCCA auto-x. H stock is the slowest class you can be in. A Toyota Tercel classes in H stock. A Mercury Topaz classes in H stock. Every non-performance vehicle that someone has for whatever reason decided to enter into competition gets lumped into H stock. It is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a performance vehicle by design. I don't care if Brian Crower makes a stroker kit for the 2AZ motor. They make a stroker kit for the 4A-G, too; I don't know anyone who's bought one yet...

[Subie]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

Anything can go fast when you invest the money in it. There's always a few weirdos out there... But to put this in perspective, the first gen tC gets classed in H Stock for SCCA auto-x. H stock is the slowest class you can be in. A Toyota Tercel classes in H stock. A Mercury Topaz classes in H stock. Every non-performance vehicle that someone has for whatever reason decided to enter into competition gets lumped into H stock. It is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a performance vehicle by design. I don't care if Brian Crower makes a stroker kit for the 2AZ motor. They make a stroker kit for the 4A-G, too; I don't know anyone who's bought one yet...

It's not because of the car; it's because of the driver. Scion tC drivers are H stock.

Originally Posted by russv

I came close to buying a TC before I heard about the FRS. I liked the idea of a hatchback with decent power and a 6 speed manual.

The 6-speed in the tC is total garbage. Be glad you didn't buy one. I made that mistake.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

Anything can go fast when you invest the money in it. There's always a few weirdos out there... But to put this in perspective, the first gen tC gets classed in H Stock for SCCA auto-x. H stock is the slowest class you can be in. A Toyota Tercel classes in H stock. A Mercury Topaz classes in H stock. Every non-performance vehicle that someone has for whatever reason decided to enter into competition gets lumped into H stock. It is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a performance vehicle by design. I don't care if Brian Crower makes a stroker kit for the 2AZ motor. They make a stroker kit for the 4A-G, too; I don't know anyone who's bought one yet...

That contradicts what you just said a moment ago, but whatever floats your boat.

I know a stroke kitted tC owner. Friend of mine.

[wlfpck]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

Don't think this is the norm thinking of a tC driver. Secondly, yea you would be best to exclude the "turboed" ones, because they start walking on those cars you mentioned when they are turboed.

It is no slouch on boost that's for sure. And it still stacks up when you modify those other cars mentioned as well, not just against their stock versions.

sigh... you really need to just relax...

1) I own a 07 tC.

2) There's not really much of a point comparing a turboed tC to a base model, non-GLI jetta is there?

3) You completely missed the point. The point is that the tC, especially the first gen, was targeted at giving the consumers another option. There was no corolla coupe. With the tC, they made a "corolla" coupe. The XRS had the 2AZ-FE. Same as the tC. The tC again is in the same market segment as the civic, jetta (non-gli), golf (non-gti), corolla, ford focus, etc.

4) Using your logic of "yea you would be best to exclude the "turboed" ones, because they start walking on those cars you mentioned when they are turboed.", I can apply the same logic of saying a swapped k20 93 civic is faster than the BRZ. I could say a smart car with the hayabusa engine is faster. Hence the stock for stock. This in turn goes back to the 86 vs. the 370Z where people failed to provide a fair comparison.

Originally Posted by JDMenrique

This topic isnt about whether a tC is fast or makes power modded. Civic's get modded the most and they are the most common cars out there, heck Ive even seen Geo Metro's with turbo kits. Thats not the point.

The point is that, with my personal view growing up in south florida where a tC was a dime a dozen, for the most part tC owners are douche bags. I only knew 2 owners that where down to earth and didnt think their $19k coupe with bolt ons was a corvette.

That being said a lot of ppl fell into the category: tC's, SI's, Cobalt SS's. The list goes on.

Yes, I'm sure the handful of tC owners that you have come across are complete douche bags can be applied broadly to all tC drivers. Well applying your logic... let me go ahead and apply the same thing and say that all the weird car crimes happen in Florida and thus Florida sucks. I'll base this off the fact that most of the car crime stories on Jalopnik are based in Florida.

Let's talk "sample size". I'm going to go out on a limb here... but chances are... I don't think the "cocky" attitude or w/e attitude is the car they drive. Could just be the people themselves... Because if hypothetically speaking, you know 1000 different tC, SI, Cobalt SS owners... that is still too small to represent all of the U.S. All it could possibly represent is Florida.