Subaru Coupe (version of FR-S/FT-86) Spotted Inside and Out! + New Interior Pic

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

RX-9 will be a 2+2, look similar to the ft86, and it's as small and lightweight as a miata and fr-s, having 280+hp 1.6L rotary. Should they make the ft86 the middle child? Hold back because there is nothing out there like it currently? Sounds stupid from a consumers POV especially after waiting for so long.

Some buyers will just buy it for looks, some will buy it because of the ae86 hype, some will buy it because they actually like it, then you have the cross shoppers who like it somewhat but will want to hold out for a better version if they don't let there emotions get involved with the car or make excuses of how they could make the car like it should be from factory, which I find myself doing at times.

I'll believe the RX-7/8/9 when I see it. Right now it really looks like the Rotary is dead again for another decade or so.

[PAImportTuner]

Originally Posted by madfast

but MOST will buy it for its price...

again, you overlook the fact that a sportscar is a niche car, and as you go up in price, the prospective buyer pool goes down, way down. i wouldnt be surprised if it was exponential. you throw around a 5-10k price difference as if it was nothing. to you maybe, but to most people, they wont pay for a higher priced, higher performance car.

but a 30k japanese sportscar? thats a hard sell man...

Price is a factor, yes. Sports car.. lets call it a sport compact for now.

Price should not go up because of performance and turbo.. they are doing a joint venture with a car manufacturer who makes turbo engines and turbos, so the instant resources are there, especially when the engine is from that manufacturer, they reused an existing new chassis(lets not argue about this).

To be honest the car to me in n/a form should be $20k and turbo should be $23-24k if it's badged as a Scion. This car has less space, less room, no sunroof, has 17s, being RWD should give it a $1-2k premium over the tC in n/a form.

Now making it 220-250hp is not going to make it compete with a WRX or STi.. it has no AWD, small cargo space and can't sit 5 people, and doesn't have a decent amount of roof for racks. Only if this car was AWD would it compete with these 2 in performance category.

Let's stop making excuses why this car can't be awesome.

[PAImportTuner]

Originally Posted by Maxim

I'll believe the RX-7/8/9 when I see it. Right now it really looks like the Rotary is dead again for another decade or so.

It's very much alive. the hybrid system and the 1.6x are already developed.. and the chassis,new miata, is already built. It's coming but not in time to wreak havoc on this car's release.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by Maxim

Which is why the FR-S isn't a sports car. It's a sports coupe...and that segment hasn't been hotter since the 80s. Practical enough to justify to your wife (you better believe those rear seats will accept child seats!).

The sports coupe segment has EXPLODED in the last 5 years.

oh lawd. semantics....

during an economic depression sports coupes have exploded? which sports coupes exactly? link to a source?

[Sabastian]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

So I don't know why everyone would think it would hike the price up much, a WRX is more of a car, equipped and featured only being $27.9k.

It doesn't really work that way. Cost-wise, it's a lot cheaper for a car maker to strap a turbocharger on a low-end economy car than it is for them to create a whole new car, even if the platform already exists. For instance, look at the GTI vs Audi TT (FWD). They have the same engines, transmissions, and layout, but the TT is a lot more expensive. Obviously, the TT carries the Audi premium, but that isn't the only reason for the price hike. If Toyota/Subaru decide to add a turbo and boost output to 300 hp or so, you can expect the price will be in line with other ~300 hp RWD coupes.

I'd be willing to bet that the price for the turbo model, if they actually build it, will be higher than a similarly powerful WRX/STi. Here's pricing my prediction: a lot of reports are suggesting that the FT-86 will cost around mid 20's. I am thinking the base price will fall just under that of the WRX, which starts at $25,495. Let's say the FT-86 (197 hp?) will start at $24,495. That puts it right below the WRX and smack in between the Miata (167 hp -- $23,110) and the RX-8 (232 hp - $26,795). This is just speculation, but it seems reasonable to me.


Also, I'd just like to note something: I know that a lot of people are comparing the FT-86 to much more expensive cars (370Z, TTS, Cayman, etc), but I see this car falling in around the MX-5 and RX-8 when it comes to performance as well as price. Don't expect any $25k Porsche killers anytime soon. You'll just be disappointed.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

Price is a factor, yes. Sports car.. lets call it a sport compact for now.

Price should not go up because of performance and turbo.. they are doing a joint venture with a car manufacturer who makes turbo engines and turbos, so the instant resources are there, especially when the engine is from that manufacturer, they reused an existing new chassis(lets not argue about this).

To be honest the car to me in n/a form should be $20k and turbo should be $23-24k if it's badged as a Scion. This car has less space, less room, no sunroof, has 17s, being RWD should give it a $1-2k premium over the tC in n/a form.

Now making it 220-250hp is not going to make it compete with a WRX or STi.. it has no AWD, small cargo space and can't sit 5 people, and doesn't have a decent amount of roof for racks. Only if this car was AWD would it compete with these 2 in performance category.

Let's stop making excuses why this car can't be awesome.

price isnt just a factor, i'd say its the number one determining factor for which car you buy. ok maybe not to us, but to everyone else, price is number one on the list.

having said that, wasnt there a rumor that toyota has backed away from that 20k price? i'd be hard pressed to believe it'll be that cheap. the lowest trim miata is 24k. how can they undercut that car by 4k, with a larger and more powerful car? i say it will be at least 23k most likely just under 25k. and if a turbo model comes out? 27-28k if you're lucky. just under 30 realistically...

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by madfast

oh lawd. semantics....

during an economic depression sports coupes have exploded? which sports coupes exactly? link to a source?

Sales of Mustang, Camaro, Genesis Coupe, Challenger are all healthy, as are the Accord and Altima Coupe. The market segment is more alive than it has been in decades. Sales numbers for individual vehicles haven't spiked to a huge degree...but they also haven't dropped, even though more and more vehicles are entering the segment. Steady sales of multiple vehicles in the same segment is irrefutable proof of segment growth.

And it's not semantics. There's a major difference between a Sports Coupe and a Sports Car. 2 seaters, regardless of price, are almost exclusively second vehicles. Many people buy a sports-coupe as their only vehicle, because it's just practical enough to get by with, yet still fun. So it's definitely not semantics; more like "major difference in demographics."

[phenoyz]

hello newbie here
when is this coming out again the scion version?
then the subie version?
do they both have the same specs?
thanks

[madfast]

Originally Posted by Maxim

Sales of Mustang, Camaro, Genesis Coupe, Challenger are all healthy, as are the Accord and Altima Coupe. The market segment is more alive than it has been in decades. Sales numbers for individual vehicles haven't spiked to a huge degree...but they also haven't dropped, even though more and more vehicles are entering the segment. Steady sales of multiple vehicles in the same segment is irrefutable proof of segment growth.

And it's not semantics. There's a major difference between a Sports Coupe and a Sports Car. 2 seaters, regardless of price, are almost exclusively second vehicles. Many people buy a sports-coupe as their only vehicle, because it's just practical enough to get by with, yet still fun. So it's definitely not semantics; more like "major difference in demographics."

the camaro didnt even exist until recently. the mustang had a major redesign. the challenger again, is a recent car. the gen coupe is NOT doing that well. etc. etc. etc.

i just look at it differently than you. i wouldnt say the segment exploded. instead i'd say GM made a friggin camaro again. the mustang got redesigned, etc. its not like holy crap lets buy sports coupes! it more like holy crap lets buy camaro/mustangs!

[PAImportTuner]

Madfast and Sabastian I totally understand what you're both saying. But as a person not really hurting for money and really comfortable. I just can't grasp having to paying 25k for a 190hp Scion with no creature comforts and a 3yr warranty. I just don't know how anyone else on here can either who are younger than me and not in the same financial situation. For comparison the RSpec Genesis is $23k, yeah it's bigger but it's a competitor. 2+2 Tuner RWD coupe.

I view Scion as bad as I view Hyundai.. which isn't necessarily bad entirely but not great by all means. More so on maturity of the company. I disagree with the fact you're saying Scion or Hyundai for that matter are allowed to charge XXXX amount of money because Miatas and RX8s are XXXX amount and this falls between it, that's the wrong thinking and things the manufacture like, your submission to this idea, Hyundai knows that's crazy so they undersold the competitors. Smart thinking, gotta give a little to get a lot.

Mazda... the Miata and the RX series have come very far and a long way to reach where they are at today, lots of racing history and currently.. soo yes they can sell for that, Scion and Hyundai can't, it's not proven and concrete yet. They are asking consumers to invest in this car, the idea, well when you look at that you really don't want to, for the price.

I give Hyundai a little respect, why? because they offer a lot in the Genesis for less with an industry leading warranty.. they really could of sold it for 25k starting but what gives them the right?? What give Scion the right, because Toyota is the daddy?? Every manufacture has the choice to sell for whatever price but don't start complaining when sales are nowhere near projected figures because of this slow, overpriced, niche product you put out and then blame the economy.. what they are saying is the economy forced consumers to become smart buyers. I for one am happy for this, it has awaken some companies to try to be innovative to earn the consumer's dollar nowadays.

All I'm saying is the Scion version has to start less than a Miata.

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by madfast

the camaro didnt even exist until recently. the mustang had a major redesign. the challenger again, is a recent car. the gen coupe is NOT doing that well. etc. etc. etc.

i just look at it differently than you. i wouldnt say the segment exploded. instead i'd say GM made a friggin camaro again. the mustang got redesigned, etc. its not like holy crap lets buy sports coupes! it more like holy crap lets buy camaro/mustangs!

The GC is doing fine. It's not selling like the Mustang and Camaro, but it's not a dud.

And the proof is in your post. The number of new or completely redesigned vehicles in the sports coupe segment has recently increased substantially, and they're all selling decent. That's segment growth. The fact that two hottest selling examples are American is immaterial.

[WingsofWar]

^ where do sports cars begin and end and where is the defining line between a sports coupe and a sports car?

I can name a dozen or more recent, sporty 2 door compact cars.

What about Hot Hatches and sports sedans? i can name a few there too..

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

Madfast and Sabastian I totally understand what you're both saying. But as a person not really hurting for money and really comfortable. I just can't grasp having to paying 25k for a 190hp Scion with no creature comforts and a 3yr warranty. I just don't know how anyone else on here can either who are younger than me and not in the same financial situation. For comparison the RSpec Genesis is $23k, yeah it's bigger but it's a competitor. 2+2 Tuner RWD coupe.

I view Scion as bad as I view Hyundai.. which isn't necessarily bad entirely but not great by all means. More so on maturity of the company. I disagree with the fact you're saying Scion or Hyundai for that matter are allowed to charge XXXX amount of money because Miatas and RX8s are XXXX amount and this falls between it, that's the wrong thinking and things the manufacture like, your submission to this idea, Hyundai knows that's crazy so they undersold the competitors. Smart thinking, gotta give a little to get a lot.

Mazda... the Miata and the RX series have come very far and a long way to reach where they are at today, lots of racing history and currently.. soo yes they can sell for that, Scion and Hyundai can't, it's not proven and concrete yet. They are asking consumers to invest in this car, the idea, well when you look at that you really don't want to, for the price.

I give Hyundai a little respect, why? because they offer a lot in the Genesis for less with an industry leading warranty.. they really could of sold it for 25k starting but what gives them the right?? What give Scion the right, because Toyota is the daddy?? Every manufacture has the choice to sell for whatever price but don't start complaining when sales are nowhere near projected figures because of this slow, overpriced, niche product you put out and then blame the economy.. what they are saying is the economy forced consumers to become smart buyers. I for one am happy for this, it has awaken some companies to try to be innovative to earn the consumer's dollar nowadays.

All I'm saying is the Scion version has to start less than a Miata.

Again, agreed on all points (except Hyundai, I think they're doing great!). A 25k RWD Scion is competing in an arena that is highly competitive.

If the only thing this car has going for it is that it feels nice to drive, it's going to be a complete flop, just like the RX-8.

I am honestly worried about the business case for the car. With two versions of the same vehicle available, neither with class competitive power, the car isn't going to do well in the marketplace even if it handles better than anything else on the market, simply because the average consumer never even explores the limits of their car.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by Maxim

The GC is doing fine. It's not selling like the Mustang and Camaro, but it's not a dud.

And the proof is in your post. The number of new or completely redesigned vehicles in the sports coupe segment has recently increased substantially, and they're all selling decent. That's segment growth. The fact that two hottest selling examples are American is immaterial.

if the mustang and camaro didnt exist, what would the segment look like then? im not convinced the segment itself is growing vs the mustang/camaro being a wild success, and that success spawns cars like the gen coupe that want in on the action. you can see this as growth, but i dont. if ALL cars arent selling well then it isnt the segment thats doing well. but rather its the individual cars themselves...

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/search/...?max-results=5

there is a disproportionately large amount of sales to the mustang/camaro while everyone else squeaks by...