California Model differences?

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by RRnold

There is a smog change in effect Jan 2013 so it's not that bad.

http://www.smogtips.com/new-smog-law-AB-2289.cfm

I really don't really know why you guys are bitching since you don't have to smog a new car for 5 yrs anyways.

Well that's bad and good at the same time (by the way, why did I need to pay for a smog test just 3 months before this new thing goes into effect? )...

On one hand there's less testing mandated, which is great. On the other hand, what matters for a car is tailpipe emissions, not some stupid visual check. All they need to do is modify the tests so that higher engine loads are taken into account, make the maximum allowed emissions stricter, and use a sniffer only. That way you can't pass if you have a turbo spewing out unburned gas and flames, and it'll make it really hard to pass without a cat as well, but gives leeway for modifications.

Tight 25mph constant speed (like how it is done now) emissions standards should be able to more or less ensure that your cats and O2 sensors are functioning well, and then a WOT run to say 5000rpm with slightly more lax allowances for HC/CO should be able to catch the people with smoke belching turbos but let most modifications go. As long as the modifications aren't polluting more than a slightly out of tune older car then that shouldn't be a big deal imo. Testing stations already have dynos and tailpipe sniffers, so what's the big deal?

[StevenEngage]

Holy crap thats awesome that at least we have no sniffer next year. anything is better than nothing....I expected the check to get worse rather than better here.

[RRnold]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Well that's bad and good at the same time (by the way, why did I need to pay for a smog test just 3 months before this new thing goes into effect? )...

On one hand there's less testing mandated, which is great. On the other hand, what matters for a car is tailpipe emissions, not some stupid visual check. All they need to do is modify the tests so that higher engine loads are taken into account, make the maximum allowed emissions stricter, and use a sniffer only. That way you can't pass if you have a turbo spewing out unburned gas and flames, and it'll make it really hard to pass without a cat as well, but gives leeway for modifications.

Tight 25mph constant speed (like how it is done now) emissions standards should be able to more or less ensure that your cats and O2 sensors are functioning well, and then a WOT run to say 5000rpm with slightly more lax allowances for HC/CO should be able to catch the people with smoke belching turbos but let most modifications go. As long as the modifications aren't polluting more than a slightly out of tune older car then that shouldn't be a big deal imo. Testing stations already have dynos and tailpipe sniffers, so what's the big deal?

The only reason how I found out about this smog update was b/c I bought my Supra in MO (49th stater) and the check engine wasn't working (a common problem with the MKIV entire module -$ 60 part). Once I swapped out the part and the CEL was working, I finally smogged it and it passed with flying colors.

I was asking the guy about visuals and he said as long as the CEL, EGR and the cats are there and working you should be ok. Majority of the guys on SF with BPU Supras don't have a problem with visual inspection.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by RRnold

The only reason how I found out about this smog update was b/c I bought my Supra in MO (49th stater) and the check engine wasn't working (a common problem with the MKIV entire module -$ 60 part). Once I swapped out the part and the CEL was working, I finally smogged it and it passed with flying colors.

I was asking the guy about visuals and he said as long as the CEL, EGR and the cats are there and working you should be ok. Majority of the guys on SF with BPU Supras don't have a problem with visual inspection.

Really? Cuz I talked to someone with an AW11 MR2, and he said the smog technician was giving him shit over his TRD exhaust headers...he just told the guy "nah, I'm pretty sure this model comes with that stock" and apparently the technician was like "oh, okay...yea I guess that's right" and let it go. They say you're not allowed to modify anything from the intake all the way to after the cats, and even catbacks are technically illegal.

Luckily heat shields typically cover all the stock exhaust components, so you can switch the exhaust out but leave the heat shields in and it should pass visual.

[arghx7]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

On one hand there's less testing mandated, which is great. On the other hand, what matters for a car is tailpipe emissions, not some stupid visual check.

I see what you're saying, but there's a lot people don't understand about OBD II. On a 100% stock car, the check engine light has to come on if tailpipe emissions exceed a predetermined level. See

http://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/obdii06/19682clean.pdf pdf page 26 , specifically section

(e) MONITORING REQUIREMENTS FOR GASOLINE/SPARK-IGNITED ENGINES.
(1) CATALYST MONITORING
(1.1) Requirement: The OBD II system shall monitor the catalyst system for proper
conversion capability.
(1.2) Malfunction Criteria:
(1.2.1) Low Emission Vehicle I applications: The OBD II system shall detect a
catalyst system malfunction when the catalyst system’s conversion
capability decreases to the point that either of the following occurs:
(A) Non-Methane Organic Gas (NMOG) emissions exceed 1.75 times the FTP full useful life standards to which the vehicle has been certified with NMOG emissions multiplied by the certification reactivity adjustment factor for the vehicle;
(B) The average FTP test Non-Methane Hydrocarbon (NMHC) conversion
efficiency of the monitored portion of the catalyst system falls below 50 percent (i.e., the cumulative NMHC emissions measured at the outlet of the monitored catalyst(s) are more than 50 percent of the cumulative
engine-out emissions measured at the inlet of the catalyst(s)).

Now think about that for a second. The Catalyst monitor throws a code when hydrocarbon emissions exceed the certification limit by a certain amount. Considering the costs involved, why would you need tailpipe testing if the OBD system is working right? It already costs a gazillion dollars to get that check engine light to come on accurately. You need a functioning catalyst conversion efficiency model that's based on calculated oxygen storage capacity. That requires extensive dyno testing with fresh cats and very expensive aged cats. So by eliminating tailpipe testing at California we're saving an additional cost burden that had already trickled down to the regular person.

All they need to do is modify the tests so that higher engine loads are taken into account, make the maximum allowed emissions stricter, and use a sniffer only. That way you can't pass if you have a turbo spewing out unburned gas and flames, and it'll make it really hard to pass without a cat as well, but gives leeway for modifications.

Tight 25mph constant speed (like how it is done now) emissions standards should be able to more or less ensure that your cats and O2 sensors are functioning well, and then a WOT run to say 5000rpm with slightly more lax allowances for HC/CO should be able to catch the people with smoke belching turbos but let most modifications go.

The sniffer found at emissions test station only measures ppm, and it measures it slowly. It can't accumulate emissions and measure total mass like on a certification-grade gas analyzer. CO numbers have a very broad standard and vary significantly between vehicles. It's not something a small inspection station could measure consistently and fairly under heavy loads.

As long as the modifications aren't polluting more than a slightly out of tune older car then that shouldn't be a big deal imo. Testing stations already have dynos and tailpipe sniffers, so what's the big deal?

That adds a whole layer of complexity to it. Lots of states have ditched tailpipe testing for older cars. It really just hinges on how strict of a visual inspection you want to go with for that very small % of cars that are modified.

[TuxedoCartman]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

At the end of the day Cali is run by Dem's and Liberal nut jobs...

they hide behind "protect the environment" but have no valid proof and regularly deny proof-of-the-contradictions they create with their laws...

Ah, spoken like someone who apparently doesn't remember L.A. From the early 80's. go dig up some archival footage of the city skyline from around that time, then look me in the eye and say "protect the environment" laws have had no effect.

[RRnold]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Really? Cuz I talked to someone with an AW11 MR2, and he said the smog technician was giving him shit over his TRD exhaust headers...he just told the guy "nah, I'm pretty sure this model comes with that stock" and apparently the technician was like "oh, okay...yea I guess that's right" and let it go. They say you're not allowed to modify anything from the intake all the way to after the cats, and even catbacks are technically illegal.

Luckily heat shields typically cover all the stock exhaust components, so you can switch the exhaust out but leave the heat shields in and it should pass visual.

Most of the heat shields have to be removed since the mounts are for the stock exhaust or the piping it larger and won't fit when swapped with an aftermarket exhaust.

Anywho, here is the CARB letter for the TRD exhaust. The TRD should never be an issue since they sell it at the dealerships. It's not their job to enforce what is CARB legal so sometimes you have to show the proper docs if they ask.

http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...catalogID=3513

[Guff]

Hate to butt in, guys, but y'all are pretty off topic, and things are getting a tad bit political. So before things get a bit too lairy, I'm gonna have ask you guys to leave...


And just to reiterate for OP, the FRS/BRZ are 50 state cars.


(Sexy JDM Gurls go here)