Why don't we get all the cool gizmos in the USA?

[ZC6BRZ]

Originally Posted by FRiSson

When does "lack of money" become "cheapness" in your mind. It looks like you are having trouble distinguishing your character from that of all Americans. Most people in the US cannot afford to spend $10,000 for extra goodies on a $25,000 car. In case you have been sleeping, or playing Warcraft the last 20 years, Americans' income has not been growing. And since the very wealthy have vastly increased their share of national income, this means that middle-income Americans (FR-S buyers) share a significantly smaller piece of total income.

American buyers are not "cheap" - they lack money, and are no longer indulging in the fiction that credit card debt equals extra income.

I believe it's cheapness not lack of money, because Japan has always de-optioned their cars, not just for the FRS but ever since the 1960s when Japanese cars started making inroads into the USA. Also, if Toyota made a fully optioned 86/FRS, then people would complain and say, Why would you buy that? You should buy a 370z or Mustang GT!

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

You wrote all that about the leather knee pads and exhaust tips? Compared to every other Japanese car I've seen they have kept the US model BRZ incredibly close to the JDM model. Ever looked at the difference beween USDM and JDM STIs? It is a stretch to even call it the same car. Generally all the goodies are kept just for Japan, but with the BRZ there really isn't much difference.

Agreed. the USDM and JDM models BRZs are amazingly similar. That's why I opted to get a BRZ. But I don't get it, why didn't they add the leather stitched interior? It would add no more than 300 dollars to the price. Why did they give us the LED DRLs instead of making it optional like on all JDM models? Why does it cost 500 bucks more for a SWP in Japan and no paint premium in the USA?

Although the more recent STI versions have become more similar except for the difference in 2.5 vs. 2.0 liter engines. I'm having a hard time thinking of any major differences other than engine size between the JDM and USDM GR STIs?

Originally Posted by azian_advanced

I think the reason they skimped out on options for North America is due to affordability for a younger target market. The Toyota 86 is aimed primarily towards males aged 35-49 making total household incomes of $150k AUD ($157k USD) per year (Source: page 13 of PDF).

Clearly, most Scion purchasers aren't making that kind of dough and as a result, many luxury options (HID, leather seats & panels, climate control switches, heated seats, etc.) had to be removed to keep the price point as low as possible without affecting its core sports car characteristics and performance features (ie. LSD, traction control, vented (larger) brake discs, 17" wheels, etc.)

Possibly, but why didn't they just offer a FR-S GT? And why does the BRZ have those options?

Originally Posted by jadewbj

Not sure about that, there are tons of "modders" in Japan. That is why most of the good stuff comes from Japan. If that was true and nobody in Japan was into tuning why would there be so may tuners and manufacturers in Japan? Why make all your parts in Japan to send to the US or europe? materials are harder to get and more expensive and you have to ship out everything by boat or airmail to your customers?


They may not DIY or have garages, they do go to shops to have work done.

I never said nobody. In Japan people go whole hog into their hobbies, and are willing to pay a lot more for parts than we are in the states. These people are also willing to pay 25k for a 86rc which is essentially a white body to mod as they want to or a 38k 86GT + the costs for mods. When was the last time the USA offered a stripper model?

And this is anecdotal evidence, but there are a lot less modded cars in Tokyo than there were in the 2000s. One issue Japan is facing is that the youth don't see the purpose or have the money to buy cars.

[SkullWorks]

ummm I don't get most of what you are saying, silly me I though we were talking about gizmos...

and FWIW, my base model M620 Ducati came with dual front 4 piston brakes...in the usa...just like all the others unless you specifically ordered a "mono-disco"

please try to atleast make your comparo's something that exists. (not to mention comparing japanese auto makers to italian bike makers while trying to claim europe and japan have different thought processes and perceived values)

[tomato86]

Interesting thread.

As a big JDM guy, I can see the whole "Japanese pay more" thing. But with all the legendary tuners (HKS, Blitz, Amuse, Top Secret, etc.), I feel like the Japanese modify more than us. They just modify with quality parts from skilled artisans, where here people love "Bob's backyard tune specials" for cheap and shun the $3000 Ti exhausts.

I picked up some J-mags a few weeks ago in Tokyo, lot of big name tuners doing justice to this car. HKS with the supercharger, Amuse with the $4000 exhausts, etc. Japanese def. pay more for mods and are all about quality, but they modify no less than us.

[jix87]

I'm sure the market and what consumers in the US market value play a role too. In the US, much more so than Japan or Europe, everything is about horsepower. If the FT86 were over $30K, most people would compare them to the 370z, Mustang, Camaro, Solstice GXP, etc., and say it's not a good value. They have to price the car so that people feel like it is a fair value, so in order to do that they cut out some of the extra features.

[roddy]

Features schmeatures...I'll take my sports car as basic as I can get it.

[Bristecom]

I just want options. The most intelligent thing a manufacturer can do is make a car that is easy and affordable to customize or swap parts on. What I want to hear is, "You want HID/LED headlamps? No problem, we'll just pop that in for you. You want leather seats? No problem, we'll put those in for you. You want a navigation/phone/xm radio system? No problem, we'll install it for you. Just specify your options and we'll order the car or parts you want and have it ready in a few days or a few weeks. Otherwise, we have some various spec'ed cars on the showroom for you to take home tonight."

But instead it's like, "Here's the car, take it or leave it. BTW, we need to charge you $500 more for the ugly stickers we put on it." I remember when I worked at a car dealer, the other sales guys would often try to convince people they didn't need something and that really annoyed me. This is likely the most or second most expensive thing people buy in their lives and they use it every day so they should at least get what they want... anyway.

[dori.]

Originally Posted by ZC6BRZ

Solution for Toyota and FHI:
Figure out what they can skimp on and what they need to splurge on to hit a bigger demographic here. That's why nothing as fancy as a GT Limited or BRZ S but nothing as stripped as a RC or BRZ RA. We do get 4 wheel ventilated discs on all our cars (only GT and S in Japan do), And LSD on all our cars (only the GT and S in Japan do), but we don't get leather speaker covers, red stitched knee pads or exhaust tips.

Hope that puts some perspective on things.

Problem is... they did. A good indicator is that neither Toyota nor Subaru can keep the car on their lots.

I would've like more options too (for example, if the Scion came with HID's, Nav and push start, I would've bought one) but as long as the car keeps selling as well as it is, there is no incentive for them to change.

[jadewbj]

Originally Posted by dori.

Problem is... they did. A good indicator is that neither Toyota nor Subaru can keep the car on their lots.

I would've like more options too (for example, if the Scion came with HID's, Nav and push start, I would've bought one) but as long as the car keeps selling as well as it is, there is no incentive for them to change.

That is the truth.

[m.box.design]

Only cars within this price range (Sub 30k) will do remarkably well in today's economy. People's wages fall way behind inflation, causing things that used to take a smaller percentage of one's income to take a considerably higher percentage.
Biggest offender? In my mind.. normalization of the global economy. But these are issues better left off this board. lol.

[midenginebias]

Originally Posted by moniz

Well then count me in as one of those whom PREFERS regular HVAC controls over "climate " control systems and who really doesn't give a damn about HID's. If its there, great but won't make or break it for me and quite happy not to pay for.

Precisely why those ideas were implemented into the FR-S, with the Alcantara, start button, heated seats, and Navi are in the BRZ.

[midenginebias]

Originally Posted by dori.

Problem is... they did. A good indicator is that neither Toyota nor Subaru can keep the car on their lots.

I would've like more options too (for example, if the Scion came with HID's, Nav and push start, I would've bought one) but as long as the car keeps selling as well as it is, there is no incentive for them to change.

Add those options and I think customers would walk away from Scion dealerships for an alternative choice. "A $30,000 Scion?"

The limited options and included features of the car were built purposely for the US market to target a specific price point for younger automotive enthusiasts and more experienced ones for modifications later.

There's a reason why LSD and 4 wheel ventilated discs are standard as opposed to non-performance oriented options such as alcantara seats, seat heaters, navigation system, push-button start, etc.

Did anyone ever think that the reason there is no multifunction steering wheel is because it'll likely be replaced by a quick-hub wheel of a smaller diameter?

People forget how expensive it is to put out an all new vehicle with an entire interior and exterior that is bespoke to the car, instead of crossing parts across the board like Mercedes Benz interiors from C-Class to S-Class or even the BMW 1M; from the M3 mirrors to the Z4 differential, etc.

[tomato86]

Originally Posted by midenginebias

People forget how expensive it is to put out an all new vehicle with an entire interior and exterior that is bespoke to the car, instead of crossing parts across the board like Mercedes Benz interiors from C-Class to S-Class or even the BMW 1M; from the M3 mirrors to the Z4 differential, etc.

Well, at least the FR-S can share parts with the BRZ and 86.

[n2oinferno]

Any car $25k+ really should have HID standard, but that's my opinion.

[Floggin Tires]

OP, I read your post

Originally Posted by ZC6BRZ

Ultimately, there's 2 reasons why we dont get to have nice things here in the USA.

1) We're too cheap...

2) We're quick to modify stuff....

All I heard was

Originally Posted by ZC6BRZ

2) even in Sapporo where I'm currently staying

Then all I thought was

End of story.