FT-86 may be comparable to... a Saturn Sky?

[Shadowsong6]

If you want a semi-cheap car that can handle AND has straight line speed got buy a new mustang v6, check the performance package box. Anyone who doubts its potential should check out (I think it was lightning lap..?) results... it beat out the 350z, STI, EVO, yadda yadda yadda. AND it will pull high 13s in the quarter with a halfway decent driver...

It sounds to me like everyone concerned with straight line speed should check one of these out rather than waiting for a car that will disappoint THEM, but not those of us who know what the FR-S is really for.

[Exage]

Originally Posted by Shadowsong6

If you want a semi-cheap car that can handle AND has straight line speed got buy a new mustang v6, check the performance package box. Anyone who doubts its potential should check out (I think it was lightning lap..?) results... it beat out the 350z, STI, EVO, yadda yadda yadda. AND it will pull high 13s in the quarter with a halfway decent driver...

It didn't beat the EVO SE (tested that year), it TIED (not beat) the 350Z Track (2006). Hell if you want bang for buck the Cobalt SS looks mighty good on that list considering it's a FWD.

It did beat the the STI and the old EVOs (and the Mustang GT tested the year before).

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...to_2011_page_8

59: Ford Mustang V6 3:12.5

[madfast]

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63

(1) I just want to make sure I'm understanding you here. A ~$25,000 car that gets 23/29mpg c/h, runs high 14second 1/4miles, and mid 6second 0-60s would be so game changing that it needs to be considered a mini LF-A? I guess.

(2) Agree'd, which is why I compared the performance of the FR-S to a Miata, Civic Si, and a GenCoupe.

not just you, but a lot of people here want this car to be turbocharged. with an increase in hp, and still being a small lightweight car, yeah i'd call it a mini LF-A... its just not happening though...

you may compare it to a miata, but in all of your posts, you sound as if you want it to be more. and im just sayin, in all likelihood, that it wont be much more than a miata coupe... heck i'd be surprised if it was as fast as the original S2000.

i personally hope that it will be lighter than the S2k, and have at least 200 hp, thus being close to its performance. BUT im really excited about how it drives. not how fast it can go. quick steering, nimble lightweight chassis, RWD agility, supple suspension, and hopefully good braking, etc... the engine is almost secondary. as long as it can rev freely, and make enough power/tq to get out of its own way, i would be happy. THAT'S why they made the car... to appeal to people like me who value those attributes over 0-60 times an 1/4 mile slips...

[PAImportTuner]

Originally Posted by fatoni

having owned a celica supra, 944 and an ae86 i guess we are going to have to disagree. and if my memory serves me correct the corolla embarrassed the mustang in auto x (although admittedly dont feel auto x weighs too much on the quality of a car) factor in what must be at least a 500 lb difference depending on sources and the value in the cars closes.

keep in mind this is a corolla

You got to be f'n kidding me, your spouting crap. Nowhere is a ae86 faster than a mustang on an autocross course. LMAO. They are h stock cars mustangs are f-stock which is 2 classes up for a reason.

Autox is dependent on driver, The mustang guy was probably running drag radials and visiting the event(I've seen it time again people running drag dials or crap street tires). IF both drivers are equal and both are modded equally, the ae86 has no chance, ZERO.


AE86 SR-5 & GTS are turds in stock form, I've owned both. only when spending a few grand do they handle properly. Stock for stock or mildly modded they get outpaced. I'd only run them in SM or Mod class where I can do a 300+hp motor build and basically anything to the chassis and suspension.

[PAImportTuner]

Motorsports related: As it stands on paper the FR-S is C-Stock with RX-8 and Solstice N/A. If Subaru model was faster by 20-30hp and better overall then that model will be put into B-Stock. Which is a very very fast class, ex; Porsche Boxster, Solstice GXP, S2000 AP1/AP2/CR. I would not want to be in BS unless it was turbo'd.

Top winning cars in the classes:
SS - Elise/Exige, Z06
AS - Corvette non-z06
BS - S2000, Solstice GXP
CS - 370z, Rx8, Solstice non-GXP (Miata NB/NC and Mazdaspeed Miata are in this class but not contenders)
DS - Integra Type-R, BMWs non-M
ES - Miata NA (only car running class except 1 or 2 n/a mr2)
FS - V8 Mustang/Camaro (any years, no one drives a dodge. lol not one.)
GS - Civic Si, SRT-4, Genesis Coupe 2.0T
HS - Mini Cooper (tC and ae86 fall into this class, but not used).. basically slow cars.

What class do you think the car belongs in??
I said G-stock everyone said "oh hell no", I said d-stock most answered "C-stock, possible B-stock" I was like. I want it to be G stock but I wont be to mad if it's D or C stock.

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

I dunno what it is about your posts, to me you sound like an ass. When I am reading it, i have the voice of angry postal worker narrating it.

That sounds like a personal problem to me.

Anywho, your post also kinda made my point more clear, even if and it does have the performance level that would make you happy it doesnt seem the car for you. Your still missing the point. Sure you have your higher standards of a car and whatnot at a price point, but your still focused on just the machine.

No, you're missing the point. If my posts sound angry to you, perhaps you should stop trying to tell me what I'm thinking. I talk about the power issue because it is the only one I am concerned about. That is not because it's the only thing I CARE about. Those are two very different things. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that this car will handle and FEEL great while it does it. Toyota and Subaru have both demonstrated their ability in this regard. I feel no need to endlessly speak about the handling because as far as I'm concerned it's a done deal. It's going to handle wonderfully. Because I consider that a given, I'm choosing to talk about other aspects of performance.

What if it did have 130hp, and all those fast cars just past you up on the highway. What if it was the SLOWEST sports car ever made in the last decade. That would only take away from from the car, but still retain this spirit we are talking about. Especially..the spirit of the AE86 which was competitive at 120hp/100ftlb against cars more powerful and just as light in the racing sector.

Again IMO you sound like you have horse blinders on.

Again, I am just as concerned about the "spirit" of the car as anybody else here, I see it as it's biggest selling point. The fact that I'd also like it to be able to get out of it's own way has nothing to do with that. It should be able to do both things at this price point and I will view it as a failure if it does not. And again....my standards for straight line performance aren't even high. It's not like I'm demanding it keep up with a 370z. I know it will not. I am ok with that. I know it will also not post handling numbers as high as that car. The tires will be narrower and it will not have as high of limits. Again, I am fine with this. The goal of the vehicle is the same as it was for Mazda with the new MX-5. Car and driver as one. I like that.

If you read my posts and the only thing you're able to take away from it is "this car should be smoking fast" then you're the one with blinders on, because that's not even close to what I'm saying. However, you WILL continue to be disappointed with my posts if you think that I'm going to talk about the spirit of the car and how great it is. I haven't driven it, and neither have you. Maybe the difference between us is that I have enough faith that Toyota will get that part of the car right.

Also: Don't insult me. It won't get you any results that you like. If you somehow are so offended by my posts, which weren't even aimed at you before you decided to attempt to call me out, then put me on ignore.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by Maxim

Again, I am just as concerned about the "spirit" of the car as anybody else here, I see it as it's biggest selling point. The fact that I'd also like it to be able to get out of it's own way has nothing to do with that. It should be able to do both things at this price point and I will view it as a failure if it does not. And again....my standards for straight line performance aren't even high. It's not like I'm demanding it keep up with a 370z. I know it will not. I am ok with that. I know it will also not post handling numbers as high as that car. The tires will be narrower and it will not have as high of limits. Again, I am fine with this. The goal of the vehicle is the same as it was for Mazda with the new MX-5. Car and driver as one. I like that.

If you read my posts and the only thing you're able to take away from it is "this car should be smoking fast" then you're the one with blinders on, because that's not even close to what I'm saying. However, you WILL continue to be disappointed with my posts if you think that I'm going to talk about the spirit of the car and how great it is. I haven't driven it, and neither have you. Maybe the difference between us is that I have enough faith that Toyota will get that part of the car right.

curious... do you feel the NC Miata is a failure? i mean they had the Mazdaspeed version then when the NC came out no turbo even till this day.

[tranzformer]

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by madfast

curious... do you feel the NC Miata is a failure? i mean they had the Mazdaspeed version then when the NC came out no turbo even till this day.

No, not at all. The Miata is a wonderful little roadster (and the new one is pretty much equal in performance to the old Mazdaspeed). I nearly bought one but the lack of storage space kept me out of it. I regularly have to put a rucksack and 2 large duffels in my car. One thing I'm really hoping is that the rear seats in the FR-S fold down....if they don't it's a no-go. I'm not in the position to have 2 vehicles yet....transporting them is too difficult since I'm single and don't have anybody to drive a second car.

It's even lighter than the FR-S is going to be, handles like a dream, and has sufficient power for it's weight. It's in the 6's for 0-60, and the engine actually responds quite well to basic modifications. I don't like the folding hardtop though....it takes away from the point of the car.

My concern is that, because the FR-S is going to be ~200lbs heavier than a Miata, it needs a bit more power, otherwise it really is going to be a bit of a dog.

Obviously if the magazines are testing it and they're getting low 7's or extremely high 6's, I'm still going to test drive the thing. I always give things a shot - if the rest of it was THAT good, I could overlook it. I'd be much more likely to simply wait and get the eventual TRD/STI version though. Why compromise?

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

You got to be f'n kidding me, your spouting crap. Nowhere is a ae86 faster than a mustang on an autocross course. LMAO. They are h stock cars mustangs are f-stock which is 2 classes up for a reason.

He was talkin' in the 80's. The AE86 would've easily embarrassed those turdstangs around a cone course from that generation, but back then such talk would be blasphemous to any American fan.

[PAImportTuner]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

He was talkin' in the 80's. The AE86 would've easily embarrassed those turdstangs around a cone course from that generation, but back then such talk would be blasphemous to any American fan.

Are we talking about the same car? I had the same car and color combo in your sig but a GTS. That thing was a turd the 80s foxbody was not a turd, only after being Cammed out, port IM, header and larger TB, MegaquirtEMS it was nimble but man I had to drive the crap out of it to just keep up. Again people have been autocrossing since when?? The mustang has proven to be an autocross machine and road race car. 2 different cars again you're comparing. Equal driver in both cars the turdstang/rustang WhateverTF you want to call it comes out on top. You kids will never get it. The 260-280Z was the the Mustangs competitor, not a damn Corolla. LOL

The ae86 is slow, until you swap or build the motor and strip the interior out with my current race car which has full interior, quieter, comfortable and worlds faster straights and turns with only a 8 year difference and still built from the foxbody 80s chassis and pushrod 302.

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

Are we talking about the same car? I had the same car and color combo in your sig but a GTS. That thing was a turd the 80s foxbody was not a turd, only after being Cammed out, port IM, header and larger TB, MegaquirtEMS it was nimble but man I had to drive the crap out of it to just keep up. Again people have been autocrossing since when?? The mustang has proven to be an autocross machine and road race car. 2 different cars again you're comparing. Equal driver in both cars the turdstang/rustang WhateverTF you want to call it comes out on top. You kids will never get it. The 260-280Z was the the Mustangs competitor, not a damn Corolla. LOL

The ae86 is slow, until you swap or build the motor and strip the interior out with my current race car which has full interior, quieter, comfortable and worlds faster straights and turns with only a 8 year difference and still built from the foxbody 80s chassis and pushrod 302.

Yeah I wanted to speak up on this one too. The 80's Foxbody Mustangs were awesome for their time. They handled, AND they were fast (for their time). There are few cars as easy to build into an auto-x beast better than a Foxbody Mustang.

[PAImportTuner]

Originally Posted by Maxim

Yeah I wanted to speak up on this one too. The 80's Foxbody Mustangs were awesome for their time. They handled, AND they were fast (for their time). There are few cars as easy to build into an auto-x beast better than a Foxbody Mustang.

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by Maxim

That sounds like a personal problem to me.



No, you're missing the point. If my posts sound angry to you, perhaps you should stop trying to tell me what I'm thinking. I talk about the power issue because it is the only one I am concerned about. That is not because it's the only thing I CARE about. Those are two very different things. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that this car will handle and FEEL great while it does it. Toyota and Subaru have both demonstrated their ability in this regard. I feel no need to endlessly speak about the handling because as far as I'm concerned it's a done deal. It's going to handle wonderfully. Because I consider that a given, I'm choosing to talk about other aspects of performance.



Again, I am just as concerned about the "spirit" of the car as anybody else here, I see it as it's biggest selling point. The fact that I'd also like it to be able to get out of it's own way has nothing to do with that. It should be able to do both things at this price point and I will view it as a failure if it does not. And again....my standards for straight line performance aren't even high. It's not like I'm demanding it keep up with a 370z. I know it will not. I am ok with that. I know it will also not post handling numbers as high as that car. The tires will be narrower and it will not have as high of limits. Again, I am fine with this. The goal of the vehicle is the same as it was for Mazda with the new MX-5. Car and driver as one. I like that.

If you read my posts and the only thing you're able to take away from it is "this car should be smoking fast" then you're the one with blinders on, because that's not even close to what I'm saying. However, you WILL continue to be disappointed with my posts if you think that I'm going to talk about the spirit of the car and how great it is. I haven't driven it, and neither have you. Maybe the difference between us is that I have enough faith that Toyota will get that part of the car right.

Also: Don't insult me. It won't get you any results that you like. If you somehow are so offended by my posts, which weren't even aimed at you before you decided to attempt to call me out, then put me on ignore.

I wasn't offended, nor do i feel the need to put you on ignore. And I Havent even begun to insult you...actually i wont even try. Kinda too tired to troll.

If i wanted to express my personal feelings about your posts why shouldn't I? I was just compelled to respond to something you said. Now your on a pretty aggressive defensive, Why so serious nemo?

Any way, this post was more clear about your intentions and views and i retract my statements. about the views of this car, you got it right and i was wrong.

But regardless your posts still sound like your an ass...ROFL