Report: Subaru Coupe STI Model Possible, But Without Turbo

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by Midship Runabout

All that work into making the camaro look cool and none into consideration of visually being able to see OUT of the car. Its like driving a tank.

I don't understand why everyone says this. Tanks have way more visibility.

[Random_Art]

Originally Posted by n2oinferno

I don't understand why everyone says this. Tanks have way more visibility.

And no one will dare call you a douche for driving a tank either. Seriously, who's going to trash talk your ride when you have a cannon pointed at theirs?

[RRnold]

Seeing the Camaro SS that bigcraig posted makes me wonder if these generation Camaro and Challenger will rake in huge $ at an aunction if they were mint in 30-40 yrs.

[switchlanez]

Thanks for the illustrations, bigbcraig. Making that "shelf" is probably revolutionary; I'd like to study the machine that stamps it to know for sure. Yes, any long, swooping curves are old-tech; hard, sharp edges are newer tech.

Matrix looks plain in comparison but has a character line which is VERY significant. In front of the rear wheels, the sheet metal is convex, then concave, becomes a sharp edge, then becomes convex again. The kicker is all of this is happening on an S-curve from above the rear fender down along the rocker.



I shouldn't say modern cars (e.g. the Camaro) derived from this stamping technology but I don't recall seeing character lines like this pre-Matrix; only post-Matrix. Once a stamping technology like this is achieved, I imagine automakers thereafter would have at it with derivatives.

BTW, this "naive assumption" you called me on was discussed at the NUMMI manufacturing plant where GM and Toyota body panels were stamped and assembled into complete cars. I'm no expert but I did some manufacturing engineer co-op work over there for 6 months.

[Giccin]

Originally Posted by Zaku

Man every time I see a 370z I think about how sexy it is I feel like im betraying the FR-S and 2000rs

370z is soo heavy though. It also looks like a snake head. Which I find is pretty awesome. Although it looks a bit too bulky for my taste. :x

[bofa]

Originally Posted by Giccin

370z is soo heavy though. It also looks like a snake head. Which I find is pretty awesome. Although it looks a bit too bulky for my taste. :x

It is quite heavy, but very fun to drive. Many don't like the sound of the engine but I absolutely love it. That said, I'm still looking forward to the FR platform and I've always been intrigued by the sound of the boxer engines. I just hope the weight savings in there.

[Random_Art]

Originally Posted by bofa

It is quite heavy, but very fun to drive. Many don't like the sound of the engine but I absolutely love it. That said, I'm still looking forward to the FR platform and I've always been intrigued by the sound of the boxer engines. I just hope the weight savings in there.

Really? I've always thought that Nissan had the sexiest sounding V6 engines I've ever heard.

[switchlanez]

The Nissan VQ engine sound reminds me of a toned down late 90's Mustang V6 engine. Like its straining itself even at lower engine speeds... sounds inefficient. It's more pronounced from the cabin than from the outside. I don't really like it. The exhaust note, however, sounds magnificent.

I'm a fan of the banshee scream of the Celica's 2ZZ or Honda's VTEC engines. Look forward to hearing the FR-S' high-revving 2.0L boxer.

[Random_Art]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

The Nissan VQ engine sound reminds me of a toned down late 90's Mustang V6 engine. Like its straining itself even at lower engine speeds... sounds inefficient. It's more pronounced from the cabin than from the outside. I don't really like it. The exhaust note, however, sounds magnificent.

I'm a fan of the banshee scream of the Celica's 2ZZ or Honda's VTEC engines. Look forward to hearing the FR-S' high-revving 2.0L boxer.

oh yeah. I miss my 2ZZ.

[bofa]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

The Nissan VQ engine sound reminds me of a toned down late 90's Mustang V6 engine. Like its straining itself even at lower engine speeds... sounds inefficient. It's more pronounced from the cabin than from the outside. I don't really like it. The exhaust note, however, sounds magnificent.

I'm a fan of the banshee scream of the Celica's 2ZZ or Honda's VTEC engines. Look forward to hearing the FR-S' high-revving 2.0L boxer.

Agreed, in stock form it sounds like its grunting, but it's a nice resonating purr. I think some prefer the toned down sound as opposed to the big 8s that sound like they are gargling fuel or the 4 bangers that sound like they are wheezing. I kinda like em all to be honest.

However, you should hear a Z with the JWT Popcharger intake. Sounds amazing!

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

I'm a fan of the banshee scream of the Celica's 2ZZ or Honda's VTEC engines.

I dont like motors that sound like lawn care equipment.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by chulooz

I dont like motors that sound like lawn care equipment.

Well that says a lot about your taste in engine sounds. I tend to favor the smoother, lighter sound of a 4 banger over the 6's and 8's. Granted I can still appreciate a good 6 but I would never buy one only for that reason.

I'd take the Nissan Fairlady Z styling over the Camaro anyday. I don't have any love for square box shapes . But it is pretty cool to read about this sheet metal advancement .

[WingsofWar]

To me, in terms of sounds, its not so much the characteristic sounds of each engine, but a certain resonance or harmonics that im looking for. A properly tuned exhaust contributes also even if the engine type is the same.

Hondas engines RAW tend to have a whine to them that doesn't sound very pleasing to the ear, and sound even more horrible with a bad fart can exhaust.

American large displacement V8s sounds don't impress me, in fact they can come off as annoying to most people.

The high pitch of rotary engine or most European v12s, or F1, and many high reving 6 cyls are symphonic. Probably clean enough to bring out a whole note if i put my guitar tuner to it.

poorly tuned cars sound like weed wackers.

[bigbcraig]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

Thanks for the illustrations, bigbcraig. Making that "shelf" is probably revolutionary; I'd like to study the machine that stamps it to know for sure. Yes, any long, swooping curves are old-tech; hard, sharp edges are newer tech.

Matrix looks plain in comparison but has a character line which is VERY significant. In front of the rear wheels, the sheet metal is convex, then concave, becomes a sharp edge, then becomes convex again. The kicker is all of this is happening on an S-curve from above the rear fender down along the rocker.

Absolutely. The sharp line and the shelf is what would be hard to accomplish. Furthermore, I don't doubt that the Matrix was significant, and while there were plenty of compound curves before the matrix, it is one of the very first times there was a sharp crease like that. Especially at the price point of the Matrix.
Never meant to say that the Matrix wasn't significant, just that it wasn't the first significant thing done in steel stamping - its the kind of process where the envelope has continually been pushed.

Originally Posted by switchlanez

shouldn't say modern cars (e.g. the Camaro) derived from this stamping technology but I don't recall seeing character lines like this pre-Matrix; only post-Matrix. Once a stamping technology like this is achieved, I imagine automakers thereafter would have at it with derivatives.
BTW, this "naive assumption" you called me on was discussed at the NUMMI manufacturing plant where GM and Toyota body panels were stamped and assembled into complete cars. I'm no expert but I did some manufacturing engineer co-op work over there for 6 months.

Definitely didn't mean to insult you, and I'm really glad to be talking to someone who has not only background knowledge but also experience in the subject.
I think we're trying to say the same thing here - its a continuously evolving process with many new ideas coming from many different directions, and new processes are often combined or (wrong word here: copied). And that the Matrix and Camaro are two examples of significant steps forward.

Originally Posted by Want.FR-S

Do you know where the lines meet for the rear quarter panel? It is not clear from the picture, as it seems the sheet metal kind of extended to the roof and out. I cannot see the line for that quarter panel, thus make it very hard to form.

I wonder if this is all in one piece, it would be very expensive trying to replace that piece of the metal in a car accident.. Typically, for this design, the rear quarter panel will be cut between the C pillar and the panel itself to save for repair cost...

You're seeing it right - the quarter panel extends up and over, the roof is the same piece. Another car that is similar (off the top of my head because its what I drive) is the 2008+ WRX sedan.

When someone hit the rear corner of my '08 WRX and the rear quarter had to be replaced, they actually cut the panel up past the C pillar (above the middle of the rear window) and spliced a new panel in there. I was very glad to have gone to a really good body shop, they talked to me for a while how that type of repair is done: there is a specific cut to make, a specific reinforcing piece made, and its all welded on the inside and out with a really expensive welder (TIG but specialty gun to fit in there), such that it's not only supposed to be as strong as the piece before but also crumple similarly in the case of a major accident. The repair wasn't too costly, in fact the majority of the repair cost was in the paint matching (which they did very very well).