Email from Key Toyota Engineer regarding FT86

[ydooby]

Originally Posted by Maxim

Yeah, I know it upsets Toyota enthusiasts to hear people talk about how most of the hardware for Toyota's new performance car is really from Subaru...but....

Most of the hardware for Toyota's new performance car is really from Subaru.

Which is fine, because Toyota's business model allowed it to make stupid amounts of money and buy part of Fuji Heavy Industries, and thereby take some creative control in terms of what Subaru works on.

Oh "really"? It's obviously your own personal speculation. Don't talk like it's some sort of truth. I suggest you read some more of the thread before you revisit your arguments.

[PAImportTuner]

Originally Posted by ydooby

Oh "really"? It's obviously your own personal speculation. Don't talk like it's some sort of truth. I suggest you read some more of the thread before you revisit your arguments.

Guys, instead of trying to cut him(Maxim) down, why don't you reason and speculate back telling him why he's possibly wrong? I think he is spot on with his presumptions. Just that aero, wheels, and interiors will be left to each company to alter a bit which he left out.

PS. Maxim don't try to take my place on here as "that guy".

[AIRMAX]

Originally Posted by TRDLiquidSilver

it has nothing to do with that at all especially with toyota press imbargos.

there's more than one car. you happen to only see in it in germany and socal but there's a prototype testing in very cold weather where there are no spy photographers and in japan. the reason your seeing it in a socal freeway was for engine temp data gathering in severe stop and go driving. you will see more spy photos when we bring it to the desert.

all these spy photos your seeing is because these are no longer mules but close to pre-production to test for problems that we didn't see. all data recorded will be severly analyzed way before it goes into any production car.

also, to answer questions who is doing most of the testing, just look at what cars are around the test, even down to the plates they're using. i'm seeing the ring pictures just like you and those plates look very familiar. we don't have email or phone access to the testers there but they're doing the same thing were doing stateside but a lot more fun. the socal plates you saw like i said before are toyota motor distributor plates not subaru.

toyota is being very shy about how much work they're doing, which is a lot. they've built a great car that just need a few things which they have in my reports.

(1) Knowing a bit about vehicle development (design engineering) also, I can guestimate This "vehicle" is currently on its evaluation stages, which is about 75% through its development. They find problems, they quickly fix it then BOOM, its production time.

You mentioned Engine temp. checking?, but also I think they are checking the suspension and chassis, recording any unexpected noises, vibrations and harshness etc, again just based from my previous experience with development.


(2) "Test" Vehicles are not numerous.... A test vehicle that goes through "HEAT" testing (Desert, Heat chamber etc) will go through a "COLD" test also (Cold chamber, Michigan during Winter lol (for US cars), and Japan evaluation tracks (for Japan cars).

Unless Toyota and Subaru are testing 3-4 vehicles then this will be a unique case.... usually 1-2 vehicles only. As you want to test the same vehicles going through extremes. A 'heated' body would of expanded, residual expansions can occur with the chassis/underbody assembly... you then put that under a 'cold' test and things shrink a bit... I've heard of seperate cold tests but thats for plastic parts, and it doesnt involve the entire car, just a cut body.

[OldSkoolToys]

I mean if you guys really wanna go down this line of argument of who's done what and who gets credit the most.....this entire project, the car itself, would not even be a flicker on the radar if not for Toyota. They created the project, spearheaded it, and could have if they wanted to, completely axed it.

This car's process started before Toyota owned a majority stock in FHI (2008), which coincidentally (or was it) was about the time the project really started to get rolling.

Subaru is owned by FHI, FHI like any corporation out there, in turn, is ruled by it's shareholders, of which, Toyota is the largest holder. And Toyota certainly didn't have much to gain from Subaru, as they can pick one model (Corolla, good example) that outsells Subaru's entire lineup worldwide. Not to mention that when it comes to FR sports car's Subaru has about as much heritage and previous serious experience in this department as I do disarming bombs, and Toyota, uhm....doesn't have that problem.

Cut.Print.Shut UP.

Now that I've used logic to end this (which never works), how about we get back |----Topic-|-------DumbAssArgument--| to where that red line is.

[chulooz]

Not even 20% is owned by Toyota... now show me sources on how important they are to the project? created?

your logic would conclude that Toyota takes part in all subaru models, unless you want to use an 'if, then' composition, in which case you need to make up a better formula.

Now that you have used flawed logic you can live in bliss.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by chulooz

Not even 20% is owned by Toyota... now show me sources on how important they are to the project? created?

your logic would conclude that Toyota takes part in all subaru models, unless you want to use an 'if, then' composition, in which case you need to make up a better formula.

Now that you have used flawed logic you can live in bliss.

Interesting you come to conclusion by avoiding every other point. The fact that Toyota has ownership of Subaru is not a standalone keystone in my position, rather, a factual statement in a larger list of examples showing how arguing "this is a subaru car" is a moot one. It's obvious Toyota has a much larger hand in this car's development than Subaru based on everything else stated. I didn't even bring up the fact that this projects lead Engineer, and his team, is from Toyota, or how Toyota did in the initial research and exactly how this car's target market would like to see it.

As is with all joint ventures, the parties involved usually have something to gain from each other. To simplify this project as just 'creating a car' would be a fallacy. In the end the two companies are creating and sharing technology and business models that benefit both. I would suggest that this car is actually a result of FHI, and subsequently Subaru, trying to empower their global sales by reaching out to Toyota's engineers and taking their fuel savings technologies for their own use in their boxer engines, which despite great efforts, have been lacking in this department. They also benefit from an (obvious) better cost reduction and marketing business model that Toyota uses. In return, Toyota has potential access to the vast manufacturing capital that FHI owns as well as automotive technology not currently employed by Toyota.

In the end I'm not out to state or claim in a futile effort, to show that Subaru is nothing more than the 'Heavy Workers', merely building the car. However, I am going to argue against any Subbie fanboi when they say Toyota's only involvement was on the administrative side with a sprinkle of Aisin on the side. That's blatantly false.

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

In the end I'm not out to state or claim in a futile effort, to show that Subaru is nothing more than the 'Heavy Workers', merely building the car. However, I am going to argue against any Subbie fanboi when they say Toyota's only involvement was on the administrative side with a sprinkle of Aisin on the side. That's blatantly false.

But I would like to see some sources on some of the stuff you have claimed.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by chulooz

But I would like to see some sources on some of the stuff you have claimed.

How about all the press releases that Toyota has been sending out?

[chulooz]

how about you quote them and post them?

Im really not trying to bust balls, its just that this forum can get out of hand with statements people think they read in press releases.

More info on the project lead and his team would be an interesting read, i guess i missed that.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by chulooz

how about you quote them and post them?

Im really not trying to bust balls, its just that this forum can get out of hand with statements people think they read in press releases.

More info on the project lead and his team would be an interesting read, i guess i missed that.

Tetsuya Tada? You mean you really didn't know?

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

Guys, instead of trying to cut him(Maxim) down, why don't you reason and speculate back telling him why he's possibly wrong? I think he is spot on with his presumptions. Just that aero, wheels, and interiors will be left to each company to alter a bit which he left out.

PS. Maxim don't try to take my place on here as "that guy".

Don't worry, I'll be mostly gone for the next year or so. That'll give you plenty more time to be "that guy."

Mostly I'm interested in what this means for the WRX. With news circulating that the WRX is being split off from the normal Impreza line (for example, Subaru is continuing to sell the CURRENT gen WRX and STi alongside the new gen Impreza), and Subaru's exit from WRC....I think there's a good chance that we might already know the name of the Subaru Coupe's name.....especially since Subaru has been making the WRX more and more road oriented over the last generation.

So who knows, maybe in the future we'll see a WRX based on this new platform. If they still want it to be AWD, I'm sure that a system similar to the new Ferrari FF could be implimented.....it's lightweight, small, and low cost. If you guys don't know how that system functions, you should look into it. It's very interesting.

[Maxim]

As for the original topic...sounds to me like a simple marketing ploy.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by chulooz

Not even 20% is owned by Toyota... now show me sources on how important they are to the project? created?

You think that subaru out of the blue would say "Yeah, that's a good idea, let's build an FR sorts coupe" ?

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

Tetsuya Tada? You mean you really didn't know?

Nope. Any official sources to confirm this anyone? Is he the engineer for the car as a joint project or the car as a toyota?