Is this a bad way to stop when driving manual?

[Jason952]

U should be in gear around a corner. Brake and shift to the appropriate gear before the corner.

When coming to a stop, there is no need to downshift thru the gears, I just put it in neutral and with the clutch out, use the brakes to stop. The downshifting would not stress the engine but does put more wear in the synchros.

[sirus]

Don't you guys slow down using your gears while braking?? Going through the gears will ensure you're always in the right gear incase you need to get out of trouble eg. Idiot behind you is on their phone and isn't paying attention when you are signaling to turn and slowing down so they almost rear end you (this happened to me on Sunday luckily I was able to speed up to avoid an accident!)
Yeah you can double clutch but you're not racing! There is no real need unless you are practicing for the track.
If you were straining your motor and gear box then you may as well park your car in your garage and take your bicycle out.
Never coast in Neutral. Bad habbit!

my 2c... Thanks for listening.

[WRXGuy1]

This is probably a stupid question, but double clutching is when you let off the gas, engage the clutch, shift into neutral, release the clutch, rev match, then engage the clutch and shift back into the appropriate gear, correct?

Why can't you simply let off the gas, engage the clutch, and while the clutch is fully depressed you then rev match, then shift into the appropriate gear?

[Coheed]

Fuel cutoff engages when the engine is in decel to save gas mileage. So engine braking is good for gas mileage. Some computers will still pulse injectors periodically while in decel to keep the cats up to temp, but you still save gas over putting it in neutral.

Sure you wear clutch, but it will still last 100k miles this way under normal driving. And the gas you save while doing it will more than make up for the slight clutch wear.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Coheed

Sure you wear clutch, but it will still last 100k miles this way under normal driving. And the gas you save while doing it will more than make up for the slight clutch wear.

You save your brake pads too! Only after buying a manual transmission car and making a habit of downshifting when slowing down did I realize engine braking can slow you down just as fast as a heavy application of brake pedal. I basically never need to put more energy into my brake rotors and pads in one application than a 10mph-0 stop (only when there's a big hill where even 2nd gear starts to speed up a bit). Apparently my car's brake pads have never been changed and they still have some life left in them, after 139k miles! Clutch is still original too.

Also downshifting isn't too bad on the synchros if you do it at lower rpms, that way they don't do as much work. I double clutch because my synchros don't cooperate sometimes, I think it's better to get used to double clutching than trying to jam it into a gear hopelessly.

[jamal]

Originally Posted by WRXGuy1

Why can't you simply let off the gas, engage the clutch, and while the clutch is fully depressed you then rev match, then shift into the appropriate gear?

That's what you should be doing. Double clutching matches the speed of the engagement dog to the gear, which is what the syncros normally do. With a dog box or old transmission with worn syncros sometimes it's necessary. I usually do it going from 5th to 4th because there is such a big ratio difference and that syncro is a little worn out so if I try to shift quickly it will grind.

I also always downshift and always rev-match my downshifts. It's not about getting maximum performance (well, sometimes it is), but just driving smoothly and keeping the car in gear.

[rice_classic]

1st off: the type of "compression" braking truckers use isn't anything like our cars. They commonly use a device called a Jacob's Engine brake (AKA: Jake brake). This changes how the valve opens/closes forcing the exhaust valves closed for longer on the compression stroke.

Please read: http://www.svfd.net/SVFD%20Files/Art...a%20diesel.pdf

2nd: To the OP, you're not defying the laws of physics or doing anything that's bad. There's more than 1 way to skin a cat right?... ugh, I hate that phrase.


As for some observations from driving, racing, teaching racing and using a manual transmission for the last 17 years...

1: Double clutching in a street application = Good. Keep those synchros nice for a long time and if done well it all keeps the driving smooooooth. This is not a necessarily considered a "performance" technique meaning doing it doesn't have to be associated with spirited driving.

2: Heel-toe = not needed in street application (considered a "performance" technique) because it is a technique that is needed when entering a corner very fast and very late in which the 2 things need to happen simultaneously (braking and downshifting). In a street application driving like this "as habit" for every day driving is silly, dangerous and wasteful. However, and this is a big however, practicing this technique on the street in a safe manner can be great way to hone the skill before showing up at the racetrack... just don't be thresh-hold braking into your neighborhood ok!

3: Corners, both street and track... Enter the corner in the gear you expect to leave the corner in. Say I'm just coming home from the grocery store the turn onto my street is a 90degree angle and the light is green, well I don't want all my groceries to tip over so I'm going to go through pretty slow. Using 2nd gear is unecessary and too "sporty" for how I'm going to round the corner and 4 is too tall to exit (bogging) so I will double clutch from 4th to 3rd, brake, turn, accelerate back up the 35mph speed limit. Make sense?

On a race track, this is where Heel-Toe becomes a necessity because I'm approaching a corner at 100mph and it's a 30mph corner which is a 2nd gear corner so I need to enter it in 2nd gear. Well I can't shift from 5th to 2nd at speed so I'm going to brake until my speed is low enough then blip with my heel, downshift into 2nd skipping 4th and 3rd, and go through the turn in gear, on partial throttle and in control... Or if you want you can "row the gears", give a blip for 4th then again for 3rd then again 2nd. I advocate skipping the gears and just doing one down shift, just don't do that big downshift too early (that's called the money shift as it costs A LOT of money!). Of course skipping gears only applies to a non-sequential manual transmission like our 6MT's.


OK, back to work.

[GingerExtract]

Originally Posted by WRXGuy1

This is probably a stupid question, but double clutching is when you let off the gas, engage the clutch, shift into neutral, release the clutch, rev match, then engage the clutch and shift back into the appropriate gear, correct?
Correct.
Why can't you simply let off the gas, engage the clutch, and while the clutch is fully depressed you then rev match, then shift into the appropriate gear?
You can do this, that is simply a traditional downshift. The entire point of double clutching is that you are completely de-coupling the transmission from the motor while building the revs. For lack of a better way to describe, this gives your transmission a chance to "catch it's breath" while you are rev-matching, and you will notice that when done properly gear engagement is much smoother.

My answers are in bold.

[Griffdawg]

When I slow down all I do is hold the clutch down and brake as needed, when It's time to accelerate I put it in the gear according to my current speed.

[soconfoozed]

Practically speaking, I'm not sure how to explain rev matching. I just know what the car sounds like, and I blip the throttle to match the sound I would expect going into the gear I want. You don't shift using the tach.

Your car talks to you. Listen to it.

[travace]

ok getting the hang of this. im sure if i was on a track in a racing situation i might be a bit more rough but everyday driving just slowing down for lights or what not i have got this pretty smoothly. sometimes i feel real silly practicing the heel toe doing this when its so not needed because im not coming in hot to a corner or anything i figure its good practice tho :P

[fuddbutter]

Use your brakes, they are there to stop the car.

worry about heal and toe/engine breaking later once you get used to the car and driving manual.


I only heal and toe to get it in the right gear for the corner i am about to take, not to slow the car down into the corner or coming to a set of lights. its pointless.
It's more wear on the clutch, and its a hell of a lot cheaper to replace brake pads.