FR-S / FT-86 Gadgets

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by chulooz

Im reading a lot of 'weight' in this thread... I want something VERY plain that just looks good and works, driver oriented positions like the supra or s2k would be sweet. No CD/cassette, MP3 is good, no radio like the early 04 STI. Manual everything, well ill expect windows and locks to be electronic but everything else should be bare bones for me. This is a lightweight sports car not a GT.

An excellent electronics suite weighs next to nothing. A great stereo system weighs the same as a crap one. A well designed center arm rest weighs the same as a crap one. Red map lights don't make any meaningful addition to weight. At most, the electronic goodies might add 10 pounds, in CPUs and wires. Changes to the design of various components that are already included, to make them more functional, also adds nothing but goodness.

Good electronics are one of the things that can make the car both pleasant for daily use and have no appreciable effect on its driving dynamics.




Things I'm opposed to:

Heated seats. Unlike the side mirrors, the equipment needed to pull this off is much larger and adds significantly to the seat's weight/design. And I'm planning on replacing the seats anyways.

Nav.

Sun/Moon roof. (40+ pounds at the highest point of the car? F that.)

Power seats. For the same reason as heated ones.

Piano-black finish on ANYTHING. Dear God, it just collects fingerprints.

Also, dear Toyota/Scion. Please do not attempt to replicate the interesting look of the leather wrapped and zippered interior of the original concept. While it might be cool using real leather, it would be lame as hell if fake materials were used to try and get the same effect/result.

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

fyi to errbody in here screaming analogue everything... a digital dash, i.e. LCD screen, would prolly be lighter than an analogue speedo along, much less analogue everything.

Yes. But without expensive technology work-arounds like back-heating, it would also be worthless in extreme cold environments. I know what the cold does to my touch screen LCD stereo unit and that is a no-go for any important instrumentation.

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

Agreed in theory, but they still need the car to sell to those with loose bank accounts.

That means some basics:
*manual seats, manual or semi-automatic [temp only] HVAC
*power windows, keyless power locks, power mirrors
*decent stereo with USB/iPod and bluetooth [I'd personally prefer an SD card reader in lieu of a CD player]
*interior materials from the "not crappy" bin


Things like Nav, upgraded stereo/speakers, auto-dim mirror will likely all be dealer-installed accessories, like both Scion and Subaru do in spades already. If you want to add on more gizmos like ambient lighting, snazzier trim bits, put that in the accessory catalog too.


--->I see Maxim and I are both Mk6 VW people. We're going to be very tough to please as we have among the nicest, if not the nicest interior of any car under $30k at the moment. VW spent so much money on our interior they got yelled at and the Mk7 will be cheapened heavily. This will give the FT-86 an opportunity to bank off VW's self-backlash, IMO.

Yes, we absolutely are spoiled due to our Mk6 GTI ownership.

I want all the conveniences my current car has...the design of the electronics and placement of controls and functionality included in the GTI is unbeatable by anything close to the price. But yes, I'm aware that the interior quality is likely not going to be replicated by anything. I'm perfectly ok with only having soft-touch materials in places I regularly touch. I don't care if my dashboard is soft. In fact, apart from the areas my elbows touch, I don't care about interior softness at all.

Scion can sacrifice that as long as they maintain high usability for the interior.

[Maxim]

And for people who decry the inclusion of good things in their car in the interest of saving 15lbs.....

Given the success of the R-spec type packages offered on the Gen Coupe, I'd expect Toyota to follow suit here, since this vehicle occupies the same market segment.

Yeah, Scion doesn't do "trim levels." But it also didn't have a halo vehicle till now. I expect things to change a little big due to this car.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Maxim

And for people who decry the inclusion of good things in their car in the interest of saving 15lbs.....

Given the success of the R-spec type packages offered on the Gen Coupe, I'd expect Toyota to follow suit here, since this vehicle occupies the same market segment.

Yeah, Scion doesn't do "trim levels." But it also didn't have a halo vehicle till now. I expect things to change a little big due to this car.

Good point, everyone has been saying Scion this, Scion that, THEREFORE the FRS will be... Don't see why they can't change that.

[enc0re]

They are not going to change Scion's marketing plan over one car. Toyota would have branded it a Toyota if they wanted to go in that direction.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by enc0re

They are not going to change Scion's marketing plan over one car. Toyota would have branded it a Toyota if they wanted to go in that direction.

Well seeing how well Scion has been doing lately (massive sarcasm), they might pull their heads out of their asses and actually try to improve their system. The FR-S' very existence as a Scion concept is a step in that direction.

It may be that they will genuinely move Scion to be their Sport brand, Toyota as the Reliable brand, and there is talks of Prius becoming its own brand for economy/green stuff. Lexus is obviously the Premium brand.

I don't think it's the right direction, but not that they care what I think anyways...

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Good point, everyone has been saying Scion this, Scion that, THEREFORE the FRS will be... Don't see why they can't change that.

Originally Posted by enc0re

They are not going to change Scion's marketing plan over one car. Toyota would have branded it a Toyota if they wanted to go in that direction.

Originally Posted by Dimman

Well seeing how well Scion has been doing lately (massive sarcasm), they might pull their heads out of their asses and actually try to improve their system. The FR-S' very existence as a Scion concept is a step in that direction.

It may be that they will genuinely move Scion to be their Sport brand, Toyota as the Reliable brand, and there is talks of Prius becoming its own brand for economy/green stuff. Lexus is obviously the Premium brand.

I don't think it's the right direction, but not that they care what I think anyways...

Toyota branded it a Scion in North America for the sole purpose of bolstering Scion's brand image and attracting enthusiasts.

The vehicle will be priced low enough that non-enthusiasts will likely buy it cuz it's "cool," and enthusiasts will buy it because it's good. And enthusiasts function as free marketing because they talk to people about their cars. Toyota know this.

I'd be very surprised if we didn't see this vehicle offered in more than one trim level. If that's too big of a "change," then Scion can simply offer "package deals" on certain combinations of dealer installed accessories.


The issue with Scion thus far has been due to a cultural misunderstanding by the Japanese, in my opinion. In Japan, the automobile serves a different purpose for young people. The roads are way more congested, and young people see vehicles more as a necessary appliance. Dressing it up with add-ons and doo-dads and basically treating it like a cell phone fits their culture; it's easy to see that the model of a mobile-phone store was used to guide Scion's dealer experience. Covers, add-ons, graphics, mass produced "personalization," etc.

Well guess what: that doesn't fit in the states, where a person's first vehicle might happen at 16 and is usually something used. Kids don't want to "upgrade" to something that's being marketed as a "first vehicle" once they're in their early 20's and on their own. They want something with the image of "cool," not "kiddie-pool."

Japan has seen a mass exodus away from vehicles as enthusiast machines, especially among young people. This is exactly why Toyota, and now Honda, have largely abandoned that market....and it's why they're bleeding market share here in the states where that market is alive and well.

[CyberFormula]

was looking at a Nissan Juke review..

and it has a digital boost gauge STANDARD

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by CyberFormula

was looking at a Nissan Juke review..

and it has a digital boost gauge STANDARD

This car is NA.....

A digital boost gauge that never moves isn't something I'm interested in.

[CyberFormula]

just putting a point that...a NISSANJUKE...has a boost gauge...
Even the New Beetle concept has temp/boost gauges....

Wouldn't it be awesome to get an Air/Fuel ratio or an Exhaust temp gauge from Factory? that tells me they really want customers to tune their car

[Dark]

Originally Posted by Maxim

This car is NA.....

A digital boost gauge that never moves isn't something I'm interested in.

Ouch... Juke is turbocharged.

[RRnold]

Originally Posted by CyberFormula

was looking at a Nissan Juke review..

and it has a digital boost gauge STANDARD

It should, it's t/c! (MR16DDT)

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by Dark

Ouch... Juke is turbocharged.

Yes. I was referring to the FR-S, which is not. So....a digital boost gauge would just sit there and tease you about your lack of boost.