Canadians with CEL and SL Issues

[TheZombi]

Basically the way I see it the reflash is a bandaid or a mask to hide whats going on, but at the same time I don't see this as an actual problem. In the industry I am in many problems like this end up getting fixed with some minor reprogramming like adding timers the machines then run for decades without issue.

The only problem I see is they must make sure that if a camshaft is mispositioning during actual operation the ECU must freak out and give a code and then it needs mechanical repair. If it is in fact just a startup issue until whatever air bleeds in there clears then it should not affect the long term operation of the car but you can bet money I will get into the habit of warming up the car for a couple of minutes before I drive anywhere.

Wow, someone calling BS after my first post, is that a record?

[Shimmyshake]

I love reading all these different comments dealers/manufacture are giving us. I went last week into Richmond Open Road Toyota for the 1st oil change. There I brought up the issue about the idle dip which I have sometimes.

A senior mechanic came out & gave me the speech about how it's normal & that they are aware of this & that the FR-S is meant to be driven at RPM. So there's no problem.

I have notes documented on my reciept that I got after the oil change. This still doesn't seem right.

[KingRohan]

Finally got some info but not much. As a couple members have mentioned the ECM reflash is coming at the end of the month, no solid time as to when this would be sent to the dealers.

As to root cause, no answer.

Looks like Toyota will get a new actual ECM, while us Subaru guys will get a re-flash since they already have the equipment to do this.

The wait continues.

[KingRohan]

Another update, we are waiting for the ECU as I posted before.

They will update ECU when it comes in, after a road test if the car is ok then i'm good.
But if the ECU does not fix, they will have to replace the sprocket and cam shaft.

I'm going down the road of waiting for the ECU.

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by TheZombi

Picked up my BRZ last Wednesday, Drove about 500 klicks and got the CEL and Slip Light on solid. Went back to the dealer and waited about 2 hours for them to come and say they can see the issue and it requires a re-flash of the ECU, they gave it back and told me to keep on driving and they would call me when the equipment shows up.

From all the frightening reports from the states and the stories of the dealers ripping apart new engines and everything else I decided to do a little checking. The reported problem is that the computer is interrogating the camshaft sensors too many times a second ( that was from the mechanic ) the actual problem seems to be the exhaust cam in my car does not hold it's position when the engine is turned off, as it sits for a few minutes if the engine is stopped in a particular spot the cam turns slightly and the pressure backs off inside the actuator, then when you restart there is a big old air bubble there that needs to clear and it will throw a code until it does. If you reset the code after a few minutes of idling you do not see the problem again until you park it. I think their re-flash is simply going to increase/introduce a timer to ignore camshaft misposition for the first couple minutes of running so the VVT system can bleed out all the air bubbles and settle down. This makes sense to me as the problem only manifests itself after a few hundred KM's of driving and then becomes persistent in most cases, I now wish I had changed my oil at 200KM.

I have no idea if this same problem is on all he cars with the issue only I can see the issue happen if I piggy back my scope on the cam position sensors and watch what they do when the car is shut off. You can see the left side exhaust cam turn almost 5 degree's in the first two minutes of cool down after a drive about 50% repeatable based on where the engine actually stops in it's rotation. I think the valve for that cam has slight leak by when in the neutral position where it is supposed to lock the gear.

Anyways I will give my findings to the mechanic when I see him next week and see if he gets all pissy at the customer who thinks he knows something.

this is one of the most useful posts on the CEL I've read so far and I've shared it in the main thread. Thank you very much for this....

[Marrk]

@TheZombi: Regarding Post #24, you said: "I now wish I had changed my oil at 200KM."

What's the connection between changing the oil and this problem?

[rapidcars]

Originally Posted by TheZombi

If it is in fact just a startup issue until whatever air bleeds in there clears then it should not affect the long term operation of the car but you can bet money I will get into the habit of warming up the car for a couple of minutes before I drive anywhere.

The odd thing about it being a start up issue is that mine happened after about a 40 minute drive. I was parked and about to shut the engine off when I noticed it was chirping louder than normal.

[tbrocato]

TheZombi, why does this appear to happen randomly from all the data / vin numbers the board has collected...what is occuring could of been something to do with assembly in the factory ?? Some people got lucky and some did not ???

[jjkerr626]

What does CEL mean and what is a slip light, is this for automatic transmissions? I don't understand so if anyone can shed some light I would appreciate it. Thank you.

[DaJo]

Originally Posted by jjkerr626

What does CEL mean and what is a slip light, is this for automatic transmissions? I don't understand so if anyone can shed some light I would appreciate it. Thank you.

CEL = Check Engine Light

"Slip Light" = Traction Control Light

They exist in both, standard and automatic transmissions

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by TheZombi

Picked up my BRZ last Wednesday, Drove about 500 klicks and got the CEL and Slip Light on solid. Went back to the dealer and waited about 2 hours for them to come and say they can see the issue and it requires a re-flash of the ECU, they gave it back and told me to keep on driving and they would call me when the equipment shows up.

From all the frightening reports from the states and the stories of the dealers ripping apart new engines and everything else I decided to do a little checking. The reported problem is that the computer is interrogating the camshaft sensors too many times a second ( that was from the mechanic ) the actual problem seems to be the exhaust cam in my car does not hold it's position when the engine is turned off, as it sits for a few minutes if the engine is stopped in a particular spot the cam turns slightly and the pressure backs off inside the actuator, then when you restart there is a big old air bubble there that needs to clear and it will throw a code until it does. If you reset the code after a few minutes of idling you do not see the problem again until you park it. I think their re-flash is simply going to increase/introduce a timer to ignore camshaft misposition for the first couple minutes of running so the VVT system can bleed out all the air bubbles and settle down. This makes sense to me as the problem only manifests itself after a few hundred KM's of driving and then becomes persistent in most cases, I now wish I had changed my oil at 200KM.

I have no idea if this same problem is on all he cars with the issue only I can see the issue happen if I piggy back my scope on the cam position sensors and watch what they do when the car is shut off. You can see the left side exhaust cam turn almost 5 degree's in the first two minutes of cool down after a drive about 50% repeatable based on where the engine actually stops in it's rotation. I think the valve for that cam has slight leak by when in the neutral position where it is supposed to lock the gear.

Anyways I will give my findings to the mechanic when I see him next week and see if he gets all pissy at the customer who thinks he knows something.

^^"the cam turns slightly"

Assuming that they do not have access to X-Ray Specs, how do you suppose they figured out that the cam was turning? Evidently, the sensors were not able to detect and report this.

[TheZombi]

Whoa, go into hiding for a day or two and all sorts of stuff happens, Basically I said I wished I changed my oil at 200 km ( @markk ) because I think there could be debris in the oil helping to mess up the seals of the actuator. I do think this problem would have cropped up eventually regardless. The method I used to see the cam turn slightly was nothing quite so cool as an X ray, I simply provided 12 volts to the cam position sensor and hooked up an oscilloscope to the signal line. The signal will actually slowly wander across the screen during the first couple minutes, this means the sensor moved.

The thing I have not figured out yet is why it is only the one side of the engine, the one bank remains stationary. I think I need to see an engine with a code other then p0019 and see what their engine does. Oh and P0019 is basically telling you the camshaft position sensor is bad or giving you an unbelievable reading... kinda makes it straightforward where to look for a problem...

[Shimmyshake]

Look what our fellow AUSSIES have from Toyota.

[KingRohan]

Got a call today.

Parts are coming in for my car like we've heard in the US. Because my issue is on the exhaust side, P0019.
Eventually I will get the ECU reflash as well.