Canadians with CEL and SL Issues - Page 2 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

KingRohan · 09-12-2012, 01:00 PM

Good idea BioRage.

So I showed the tech guy, a post of what Toyota is replacing.

And he says, he has not recieved any word that these parts are "countermeasure parts" so they are the same nothing is different.

But no word whether that applies to this ECU that is being put in as well.

Slick · 09-12-2012, 02:38 PM

How has this started for you guys?

No CEL, but my idle has been hunting alot lately (every 20-30 secs it drops from 700 to 400 and then back up).
6500 kms and had the car for almost 3 months now without any issue.

It seems you guys are getting the CEL and car goes into Limp mode, requiring a trip to the dealer.

KingRohan · 09-12-2012, 03:10 PM

Personally I don't remember hunt mode at all.

I was actually stopped at a light and noticed car was off. (this is when it all started)

Then started car, and SL and CEL came on.

Was able to get to work, then at end of day about 30mins into drive, whenever i came to a stop it would seem it was going to stall out, shifter shook like crazy, when this was occuring sometimes CEL light would Flash at me.

At stops, i rev'd engine a bit to keep rpms up so it wouldn't stall.

DjDATZ · 09-12-2012, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingRohan

Was able to get to work, then at end of day about 30mins into drive, whenever i came to a stop it would seem it was going to stall out, shifter shook like crazy, when this was occuring sometimes CEL light would Flash at me.

At stops, i rev'd engine a bit to keep rpms up so it wouldn't stall.

Mine was doing the same actually about 10-15km before the CEL came on. But then it seemed to go away, and a few km later, BAM, CEL.

FBaxteR-S · 09-12-2012, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slick

How has this started for you guys?

No CEL, but my idle has been hunting alot lately (every 20-30 secs it drops from 700 to 400 and then back up).
6500 kms and had the car for almost 3 months now without any issue.

It seems you guys are getting the CEL and car goes into Limp mode, requiring a trip to the dealer.

Same as the other two. You only notice this at idle, the car will violently shake, RPMs drop to 300-400 and then you throw a code. For me, once the code came on the shaking stopped permanently, I no longer have idle issues but I do have a nice bright orange light on my dash.

governor · 09-13-2012, 09:26 PM

For the 11 days I had my car there were occasions where I had an odd sensation of idle hunting, but I shrugged it off thinking it was just the AC. In my Camry the AC cycle was noticeable on idle, but very predictable, in the FRS it felt off.

Like others I didn't really have a WTF moment until at stopped at a red light.

FBaxteR-S · 09-14-2012, 08:03 AM

Just had the CEL read at the dealer and my car is their first one with this issue. They said "the car is fine to drive" and they'll be getting in touch with Toyota in order to educate themselves and look at possible solutions.

I'm hoping this ends up turning out to be something along the lines of what I suspected as just bad communication with the ECU, I would certainly hesitate if I heard things like "rebuild".

KingRohan · 09-14-2012, 11:00 AM

Mine is still at dealer, I just hated the way if felt, didn't give me any confidence in it.

Also sucks to tell people your new car is in the shop!

Got a Legacy as my loaner still, 4 banger which is better for me since I commute an hour to work everyday. The 3.6 had some go, but the gas was killing me.

Sent my dealer a snippet with the pic, of that guys poor FRS that blew up and melted the rear bumper.

Hey FBaxteR-S how has your dealer been treating you? Did you buy in it in the Tri-City?

FBaxteR-S · 09-14-2012, 10:38 PM

Dealer's been great but as I said I'm their first lucky customer to have the issue but I appreciated their courtesy and honesty. At first someone in the service bay suggested it might have been bad gas but I knew it was not. This was not a fully certified tech though I think and the second person who actually ran the code and checked it was clearly more competent and honest with me.

Waiting to hear back regarding their communication with Toyota but yes I did buy in the tri-cities and couldn't be happier. Will pm anyone who is further interested but there's not much to tell yet - just a great salesman/finance manager and customer service.

TheZombi · 09-16-2012, 05:49 PM

Picked up my BRZ last Wednesday, Drove about 500 klicks and got the CEL and Slip Light on solid. Went back to the dealer and waited about 2 hours for them to come and say they can see the issue and it requires a re-flash of the ECU, they gave it back and told me to keep on driving and they would call me when the equipment shows up.

From all the frightening reports from the states and the stories of the dealers ripping apart new engines and everything else I decided to do a little checking. The reported problem is that the computer is interrogating the camshaft sensors too many times a second ( that was from the mechanic ) the actual problem seems to be the exhaust cam in my car does not hold it's position when the engine is turned off, as it sits for a few minutes if the engine is stopped in a particular spot the cam turns slightly and the pressure backs off inside the actuator, then when you restart there is a big old air bubble there that needs to clear and it will throw a code until it does. If you reset the code after a few minutes of idling you do not see the problem again until you park it. I think their re-flash is simply going to increase/introduce a timer to ignore camshaft misposition for the first couple minutes of running so the VVT system can bleed out all the air bubbles and settle down. This makes sense to me as the problem only manifests itself after a few hundred KM's of driving and then becomes persistent in most cases, I now wish I had changed my oil at 200KM.

I have no idea if this same problem is on all he cars with the issue only I can see the issue happen if I piggy back my scope on the cam position sensors and watch what they do when the car is shut off. You can see the left side exhaust cam turn almost 5 degree's in the first two minutes of cool down after a drive about 50% repeatable based on where the engine actually stops in it's rotation. I think the valve for that cam has slight leak by when in the neutral position where it is supposed to lock the gear.

Anyways I will give my findings to the mechanic when I see him next week and see if he gets all pissy at the customer who thinks he knows something.

Rob_g · 09-16-2012, 06:07 PM

I've been bitching at Toyota and they finally called me to say they have identified the problem and are working on a fix. The rep would not elaborate more than that even when I pressed her for details.

Rob

FBaxteR-S · 09-16-2012, 09:21 PM

Wow, Zombi, thanks for your input.

I too find it interesting that guys in the good old US of A are getting their engines rebuilt practically from the ground up (and often times one side at a time...) and our techs are either being a lot more patient or honest with us or both. Could it be possible that Toyota Canada is a little more competent and thorough, not jumping to conclusions (wrong ones) as quickly? I find it almost amusing, if not for the poor guys getting everything under the sun replaced only to have the issue reappear.

Zombi, if a reflash cures your problem indefinitely that will be amazing news for the rest of us. As I said, my dealership is contacting Toyota and will report back to me.

Rob_g · 09-16-2012, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBaxteR-S

Wow, Zombi, thanks for your input.

I too find it interesting that guys in the good old US of A are getting their engines rebuilt practically from the ground up (and often times one side at a time...) and our techs are either being a lot more patient or honest with us or both. Could it be possible that Toyota Canada is a little more competent and thorough, not jumping to conclusions (wrong ones) as quickly? I find it almost amusing, if not for the poor guys getting everything under the sun replaced only to have the issue reappear.

Zombi, if a reflash cures your problem indefinitely that will be amazing news for the rest of us. As I said, my dealership is contacting Toyota and will report back to me.

I think a re-flash is going to be a band aid repair for issues that are mechanical in nature.

Rob

governor · 09-16-2012, 10:24 PM

I agree, ECU flash to hide a mechanical problem. Why the hell wouldn't they just fix the faulty sensor and have the car run as it should.

Also, in terms of this fix working.. I am doubtful. The rough idle does not usually happen until after then engine has warmed up. So the explanation above about air bubbles seems like a load of BS to me.

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09-12-2012, 01:00 PM	#15
KingRohan Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Drives: BRZ Sport Tech 6sp Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 65 Thanks: 12 Thanked 10 Times in 6 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Good idea BioRage. So I showed the tech guy, a post of what Toyota is replacing. And he says, he has not recieved any word that these parts are "countermeasure parts" so they are the same nothing is different. But no word whether that applies to this ECU that is being put in as well.

09-12-2012, 02:38 PM	#16
Slick Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Drives: FR-S Firestorm 6MT Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,881 Thanks: 345 Thanked 1,389 Times in 628 Posts Mentioned: 137 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	How has this started for you guys? No CEL, but my idle has been hunting alot lately (every 20-30 secs it drops from 700 to 400 and then back up). 6500 kms and had the car for almost 3 months now without any issue. It seems you guys are getting the CEL and car goes into Limp mode, requiring a trip to the dealer.

09-12-2012, 03:10 PM	#17
KingRohan Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Drives: BRZ Sport Tech 6sp Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 65 Thanks: 12 Thanked 10 Times in 6 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Personally I don't remember hunt mode at all. I was actually stopped at a light and noticed car was off. (this is when it all started) Then started car, and SL and CEL came on. Was able to get to work, then at end of day about 30mins into drive, whenever i came to a stop it would seem it was going to stall out, shifter shook like crazy, when this was occuring sometimes CEL light would Flash at me. At stops, i rev'd engine a bit to keep rpms up so it wouldn't stall.

09-13-2012, 09:26 PM	#20
governor Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Drives: 2013 FR-S Navy Blue Location: Canada Posts: 24 Thanks: 4 Thanked 11 Times in 5 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	For the 11 days I had my car there were occasions where I had an odd sensation of idle hunting, but I shrugged it off thinking it was just the AC. In my Camry the AC cycle was noticeable on idle, but very predictable, in the FRS it felt off. Like others I didn't really have a WTF moment until at stopped at a red light.

09-14-2012, 08:03 AM	#21
FBaxteR-S Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Drives: 2013 Whiteout FR-S MT Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 132 Thanks: 119 Thanked 35 Times in 26 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Just had the CEL read at the dealer and my car is their first one with this issue. They said "the car is fine to drive" and they'll be getting in touch with Toyota in order to educate themselves and look at possible solutions. I'm hoping this ends up turning out to be something along the lines of what I suspected as just bad communication with the ECU, I would certainly hesitate if I heard things like "rebuild".

09-14-2012, 11:00 AM	#22
KingRohan Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Drives: BRZ Sport Tech 6sp Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 65 Thanks: 12 Thanked 10 Times in 6 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Mine is still at dealer, I just hated the way if felt, didn't give me any confidence in it. Also sucks to tell people your new car is in the shop! Got a Legacy as my loaner still, 4 banger which is better for me since I commute an hour to work everyday. The 3.6 had some go, but the gas was killing me. Sent my dealer a snippet with the pic, of that guys poor FRS that blew up and melted the rear bumper. Hey FBaxteR-S how has your dealer been treating you? Did you buy in it in the Tri-City?

09-14-2012, 10:38 PM	#23
FBaxteR-S Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Drives: 2013 Whiteout FR-S MT Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 132 Thanks: 119 Thanked 35 Times in 26 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Dealer's been great but as I said I'm their first lucky customer to have the issue but I appreciated their courtesy and honesty. At first someone in the service bay suggested it might have been bad gas but I knew it was not. This was not a fully certified tech though I think and the second person who actually ran the code and checked it was clearly more competent and honest with me. Waiting to hear back regarding their communication with Toyota but yes I did buy in the tri-cities and couldn't be happier. Will pm anyone who is further interested but there's not much to tell yet - just a great salesman/finance manager and customer service.

09-16-2012, 05:49 PM	#24
TheZombi Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Drives: 2013 Brz WRB Sport Tech Location: Ontario Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 11 Times in 4 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Picked up my BRZ last Wednesday, Drove about 500 klicks and got the CEL and Slip Light on solid. Went back to the dealer and waited about 2 hours for them to come and say they can see the issue and it requires a re-flash of the ECU, they gave it back and told me to keep on driving and they would call me when the equipment shows up. From all the frightening reports from the states and the stories of the dealers ripping apart new engines and everything else I decided to do a little checking. The reported problem is that the computer is interrogating the camshaft sensors too many times a second ( that was from the mechanic ) the actual problem seems to be the exhaust cam in my car does not hold it's position when the engine is turned off, as it sits for a few minutes if the engine is stopped in a particular spot the cam turns slightly and the pressure backs off inside the actuator, then when you restart there is a big old air bubble there that needs to clear and it will throw a code until it does. If you reset the code after a few minutes of idling you do not see the problem again until you park it. I think their re-flash is simply going to increase/introduce a timer to ignore camshaft misposition for the first couple minutes of running so the VVT system can bleed out all the air bubbles and settle down. This makes sense to me as the problem only manifests itself after a few hundred KM's of driving and then becomes persistent in most cases, I now wish I had changed my oil at 200KM. I have no idea if this same problem is on all he cars with the issue only I can see the issue happen if I piggy back my scope on the cam position sensors and watch what they do when the car is shut off. You can see the left side exhaust cam turn almost 5 degree's in the first two minutes of cool down after a drive about 50% repeatable based on where the engine actually stops in it's rotation. I think the valve for that cam has slight leak by when in the neutral position where it is supposed to lock the gear. Anyways I will give my findings to the mechanic when I see him next week and see if he gets all pissy at the customer who thinks he knows something.

09-16-2012, 06:07 PM	#25
Rob_g Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Drives: 2010 4Runner Trail Location: Regina, SK Posts: 206 Thanks: 0 Thanked 57 Times in 39 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I've been bitching at Toyota and they finally called me to say they have identified the problem and are working on a fix. The rep would not elaborate more than that even when I pressed her for details. Rob

09-16-2012, 09:21 PM	#26
FBaxteR-S Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Drives: 2013 Whiteout FR-S MT Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 132 Thanks: 119 Thanked 35 Times in 26 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Wow, Zombi, thanks for your input. I too find it interesting that guys in the good old US of A are getting their engines rebuilt practically from the ground up (and often times one side at a time...) and our techs are either being a lot more patient or honest with us or both. Could it be possible that Toyota Canada is a little more competent and thorough, not jumping to conclusions (wrong ones) as quickly? I find it almost amusing, if not for the poor guys getting everything under the sun replaced only to have the issue reappear. Zombi, if a reflash cures your problem indefinitely that will be amazing news for the rest of us. As I said, my dealership is contacting Toyota and will report back to me.

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09-16-2012, 10:24 PM	#28
governor Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Drives: 2013 FR-S Navy Blue Location: Canada Posts: 24 Thanks: 4 Thanked 11 Times in 5 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I agree, ECU flash to hide a mechanical problem. Why the hell wouldn't they just fix the faulty sensor and have the car run as it should. Also, in terms of this fix working.. I am doubtful. The rough idle does not usually happen until after then engine has warmed up. So the explanation above about air bubbles seems like a load of BS to me.