Raised High Spoilers

[iff2mastamatt]

Originally Posted by xantonin

Seems to me that you would hardly know it was there while driving. Of course none would provide better visibility, but kudos to Toyota/Subaru for appearing to take that into consideration if they do add one. I'm sure that is the reason for raising the spoiler so high.

The picture is from a higher angle, so the spoiler will not be visible from the photo you posted. However, I would hate to have a spoiler that obstructed my vision of the traffic behind me. A raised one IMO would still get in the way, so I would prefer one like on the MKII. Simple, low, and sleek. Just my two cents.

[bofa]

Originally Posted by ToyotaObsession

Anytime you speak in absolutes you're bound to be wrong. It's not always easier to add them. Depends on the design of the Trunk. It might require a lot of fabbing structural support.

And cheaper is a relative term. How much do you think they'll knock off the MSRP? $50? Nothing? $500? Sure they charge more to add it, but they rarely charge less to do without.

In a way this seems really funny to me because people are getting really heated about this spoiler and we literally have no idea if it will even make it into production in any version. It could be there just to piss people off .

I still don't think I'm wrong here. We are talking dealer options... not the biggest salad bar you can find at your closest Discount Auto Parts. These are generally sold as a kit (or as fiberglass and a separate hardware kit) and the OEM trunk structure supports it as is. They won't knock anything off the price per se... but it would reduce the overall cost and the base price. Car without a spoiler costs less to manufacture than a car with one.

I haven't seen anyone get heated, just some that really like it, some that hate it and some that can live with or without it. My point is if they are struggling to keep this thing in a certain price range, it would make sense to make this monstrosity optional.

[ToyotaObsession]

Originally Posted by bofa

I still don't think I'm wrong here. We are talking dealer options... not the biggest salad bar you can find at your closest Discount Auto Parts. These are generally sold as a kit (or as fiberglass and a separate hardware kit) and the OEM trunk structure supports it as is. They won't knock anything off the price per se... but it would reduce the overall cost and the base price. Car without a spoiler costs less to manufacture than a car with one.

I haven't seen anyone get heated, just some that really like it, some that hate it and some that can live with or without it. My point is if they are struggling to keep this thing in a certain price range, it would make sense to make this monstrosity optional.

Heated/Passionate, etc. Same thing.

So.... what about the other non-OEM kits that dealers sell? Do those count too?

The base price is going to be what it is spoiler or not. The cost of that spoiler to Toyota is probably less than $75. It's not something you'll see reflected in the MSRP.

We have no idea if they are struggling to keep it in a certain price range. Even if they were, $75 is not going to break the bank. Even at what they typically charge in the $300 range isn't going to make a big difference. If they include it we wouldn't know what the MSRP would be without it.

That's why I don't understand why you are so fixated on the price of the car and how this spoiler may/may not affect it.

Either way I'm doubtful that they'll include it on the Base Model. The High Wings like that have usually been on the Hi-Pro or Special Edition models.

[Riden86]

This big wing make it feel like super car.

[john]

Super cars don't necessarily come with these kind of wings. Many super cars that come with 'big' wings are GT wings that are probably worth quite a chunk of the FRS.

[xantonin]

I think a wing completes the look of a cars shape.

It makes it look more jet like to me:

[OldSkoolToys]

$5 says the standard car will be spoiler/wingless. They save that shit for dealer addon. It is Scion guys.

FTR, the raised rear deck behind the rear seats in my Fusion hinder my rear vision more than basically any reasonable wing/spoiler on the FT-86 would. Seriously, no clue why its like that...its annoying as piss.

[john]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

$5 says the standard car will be spoiler/wingless.

That is like stealing candy from a little kid.

[Snaps]

Originally Posted by blacknbean

do no want! unless your on the track its not needed and looks tacky most of the time. if there was an option i would choose the smaller one, else its coming off day one.

Actually, the MKIV Supra's wing was recommended to be fitted because otherwise the rear became a little unstable while changing lanes on the highway, IIRC the 40kg's of downforce helped with stability at 100km/h

If I had the choice between no wing and a wing, I'd always choose the wing unless it was absolutely hideous (which this one is not)

[Abflug]

Originally Posted by Snaps

Actually, the MKIV Supra's wing was recommended to be fitted because otherwise the rear became a little unstable while changing lanes on the highway, IIRC the 40kg's of downforce helped with stability at 100km/h

same as W2 MR2s

[ToyotaObsession]

Originally Posted by Snaps

Actually, the MKIV Supra's wing was recommended to be fitted because otherwise the rear became a little unstable while changing lanes on the highway, IIRC the 40kg's of downforce helped with stability at 100km/h

If I had the choice between no wing and a wing, I'd always choose the wing unless it was absolutely hideous (which this one is not)

I wonder if this one is functional then. Hard to say from the pics.

[Snaps]

^ I think it's safe to guess it is. The car is RWD, has 200hp, and only weighs 1100-1200kg's AFAIK, it probably needs the wing to make it more stable when putting power down out of corners.

Also, IIRC someone stated earlier that they should just change spring rates rather than adding a wing. I disagree - the characteristics of a wing are different from that of just changing spring rates, a wing only acts at higher speeds, so you can get a different weight distribution while moving, for stability. If the car creates no downforce/lift the weight distribution will be the same moving as it is when it is still (static weight dist.). In all truth, the weight distribution while moving is much more important than the static weight distribution.

[ToyotaObsession]

Originally Posted by Snaps

^ I think it's safe to guess it is. The car is RWD, has 200hp, and only weighs 1100-1200kg's AFAIK, it probably needs the wing to make it more stable when putting power down out of corners.

Also, IIRC someone stated earlier that they should just change spring rates rather than adding a wing. I disagree - the characteristics of a wing are different from that of just changing spring rates, a wing only acts at higher speeds, so you can get a different weight distribution while moving, for stability. If the car creates no downforce/lift the weight distribution will be the same moving as it is when it is still (static weight dist.). In all truth, the weight distribution while moving is much more important than the static weight distribution.

You have a good point there.

Spring rates would help I'm sure. But this is a street car first. They won't make it as stiff (or as low) as a purist would like. Which is why I kind of wonder if it will be truly functional. Wind Tunnel testing isn't cheap.

Is it worth the cost to make a truly functional wing. Even it's Adjustable.... who has the time and money to make sure their adjustable wing is doing what it should be? I suppose you go do time attack and see what gets you the lowest times.

[bofa]

Originally Posted by ToyotaObsession

Heated/Passionate, etc. Same thing.

So.... what about the other non-OEM kits that dealers sell? Do those count too?

The base price is going to be what it is spoiler or not. The cost of that spoiler to Toyota is probably less than $75. It's not something you'll see reflected in the MSRP.

We have no idea if they are struggling to keep it in a certain price range. Even if they were, $75 is not going to break the bank. Even at what they typically charge in the $300 range isn't going to make a big difference. If they include it we wouldn't know what the MSRP would be without it.

That's why I don't understand why you are so fixated on the price of the car and how this spoiler may/may not affect it.

Either way I'm doubtful that they'll include it on the Base Model. The High Wings like that have usually been on the Hi-Pro or Special Edition models.

I'm not fixated on price... just proving one of my points that it is in fact cheaper to manufacture a car with less features (and as pointed out above it is Scion's M-O to have them as dealer options). If the cost to make this spoiler is even $20 and it lowers the invoice it could be the difference of the final price being over/under 24K (23980?). I'm not saying it's the only factor but these decisions come into play. It also comes into play for dealer profit since they make a flat amount from each Scion sold, and add-ons are their chance for additional profits. I feel like this has taken the thread off topic though so I'll stop arguing about it. At least we can agree that we don't expect it on the base car.

Somehow I doubt that the car without this wing would become unstable at highway speeds, even if this thing has 250hp and weighs 2000 lbs. I think the spoiler as designed may serve limited function, but is mostly aesthetic and also as OP mentioned to provide better visibility out of the rear window. Neither are reason enough for me to really want it. I could live with or without it, but my preference would be no wing or the gt style seen in earlier pics.