FT86 ... AS A SCION???

[White Comet]

They both suck.

Whoever suggested "Sprinter" needs 1000 cool points. Toyota should name it that. It's new enough that the marketing mavens can glom onto it and sell it as a totally new car, but the gearheads can attach themselves to this oldschool name in relation to Toyota history.

[zbirdman777]

I drive a Scion...I don't think making the FT-86 a Scion would be a good idea. Especially calling it a tC. The tC is fwd and supposedly priced below 20k, and Scion is American only.

I'm with white comet on this. A name like sprinter would be a good idea. Something new that's reminiscent of the old.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by White Comet

They both suck.

Whoever suggested "Sprinter" needs 1000 cool points. Toyota should name it that. It's new enough that the marketing mavens can glom onto it and sell it as a totally new car, but the gearheads can attach themselves to this oldschool name in relation to Toyota history.

[White Comet]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

Gearheads won't care, and the general public will not make the connection. So long as there is no legal issue, I think the Sprinter name would be awesome.

[cyde01]

there IS a legal issue. that's the problem.

[cyde01]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

To his credit, there hasn't been an exciting Celica in the U.S. in 18 years.

for some of us it doesn't seem like that long ago when toyota was racing the gt-four in wrc. a name associated with good racing history a loong loong time ago is still better than a name associated with toaster-ovens blasting my humps. completely new name would be the best solution imo.

[White Comet]

Originally Posted by cyde01

there IS a legal issue. that's the problem.

There is a potential legal issue. It's pure speculation as to what Chrysler would do if Toyota approached them with this. Plus, having used the same name themselves in the past, might further muddy the legals waters.

[zigzagz94]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

To his credit, there hasn't been an exciting Celica in the U.S. in 18 years.

Originally Posted by cyde01

for some of us it doesn't seem like that long ago when toyota was racing the gt-four in wrc. a name associated with good racing history a loong loong time ago is still better than a name associated with toaster-ovens blasting my humps. completely new name would be the best solution imo.

ST185 Celica All-Tracs were sold in the U.S. up until 1993 so that's like what 16 years ago. For us 30+ year old guys 1993 seems like just yesterday.

And as reported earlier, The ST185 is Toyota's most successful rally car. It won the WRC Driver's Championship in 1992, and theWRC Manufacturer's and Driver's Championships in 1993 and 1994.

Despite what many of you think the Celica name has a lot of very successful racing history tied to it and would be way better than SCION, although I'm not completely opposed to a new name either.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by zigzagz94

ST185 Celica All-Tracs were sold in the U.S. up until 1993 so that's like what 16 years ago. For us 30+ year old guys 1993 seems like just yesterday.

Now you're stretching zig. 18 years vs 16 years, the 2 years matter little. It still portrays a long gap between sport models. Even then, only a handful of Alltracs were even sent to the U.S. It has no significant cult backing in America; ie: of any consequence to effecting sales on a future model. To top it all of the FT's price range along with its very reason for existance (the cult following of the AE86 which stretches beyond gear-heads like us) hints that the car is aimed at an age group of potential buyers who were probably barely out of diapers when the Alltrac was scratched.

And as reported earlier, The ST185 is Toyota's most successful rally car. It won the WRC Driver's Championship in 1992, and theWRC Manufacturer's and Driver's Championships in 1993 and 1994.

Despite what many of you think the Celica name has a lot of very successful racing history tied to it and would be way better than SCION, although I'm not completely opposed to a new name either.

I'm not questioning nor denying the Celica's rich racing heritage. I may be a young enthusiast (comparitively) but I'm not uninformed on old school toyotas. Quite the contrary actually and thats one reason for my forum handle. I grew up riding in these old Toyota's (88 Celica GT-S, 89 Supra, 87 Corolla GT-S, 91 corolla GT-S) and thats one of the reason's I've owned 3 Toyota sports cars from the '80s.

My entire point up to date has been this: Not only does it make little sense to market this as a Celica (due to target market shown above) but its a complete slap in the face to the fans that motivated Toyota to make such a car. This car is completely molded after the AE86, right down to the fact that Toyota wants this car to DRIFT better from the factory than Grip, as hinted at by Tada. Thats not even because the AE86 is an ultimate drift car; it isn't! Not even close! But it holds a very special and highly respected position in drifting, and because of that, this car is being tuned for that direct purpose.

There isn't a spec, a miniscule, a tiny fiber of this car that makes it an inheritor of the Celica name. Its all been because of the 86. People act like this will be the only new sports car to come out from Toyota. They're wrong. Its not guaranteed but Toyota has publicly stated that this is just the beginning. So, to you Celica junkies I say to you, hold on and wait for your Celica successor. Because to me, a true celica successor, is one modeled after the WRC cars....AWD anyone? Who is Toyota partnered with? Oh yeah, that company that excels in AWD....think its called Subaru. I could keep going but I think everyone gets at what I'm gonna say next.



I WILL own an ST165 someday. Thats not an if, its a when. I love this car, I always have, and always will.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

My entire point up to date has been this: Not only does it make little sense to market this as a Celica (due to target market shown above) but its a complete slap in the face to the fans that motivated Toyota to make such a car. This car is completely molded after the AE86, right down to the fact that Toyota wants this car to DRIFT better from the factory than Grip, as hinted at by Tada. Thats not even because the AE86 is an ultimate drift car; it isn't! Not even close! But it holds a very special and highly respected position in drifting, and because of that, this car is being tuned for that direct purpose.

There isn't a spec, a miniscule, a tiny fiber of this car that makes it an inheritor of the Celica name. Its all been because of the 86. People act like this will be the only new sports car to come out from Toyota. They're wrong. Its not guaranteed but Toyota has publicly stated that this is just the beginning. So, to you Celica junkies I say to you, hold on and wait for your Celica successor. Because to me, a true celica successor, is one modeled after the WRC cars....AWD anyone? Who is Toyota partnered with? Oh yeah, that company that excels in AWD....think its called Subaru. I could keep going but I think everyone gets at what I'm gonna say next.

So it all makes sense now. You believe that the existence of this car is owed to AE-86 owners

Why? Because Toyota approached the club 4ag forum to ask what they thought should be in such a car? roflmao...

Just classic. Step down off your high horse for a minute and reflect.

Secondly, before the celica was awd and turbo, it was rwd and lightweight, long before the AE-86 existed. This FT-86 is an economic, lightweight, rwd sportscar for the masses, a japanese 4 cyl/ v6 mustang if you wanna put it that way, the exact same car the celica was before it gave way to the supra.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

So it all makes sense now. You believe that the existence of this car is owed to AE-86 owners

Why? Because Toyota approached the club 4ag forum to ask what they thought should be in such a car? roflmao...

Just classic. Step down off your high horse for a minute and reflect.

I'm not on a high horse. This car is being manufactured in the image of the AE86, not the Celica. This isn't debatable, its just a fact. How is it even remotely "being on a high horse" stating that Toyota came to club4ag for the enthusiasts opinion? Again, its not debatable, its just fact. You may not like this fact, for whatever god unknown reason, but its true. Fyi, club4ag is more than just a bunch of 86 fans. They're mostly old school toyota fans, most of which would probably be stoked if it were called a Celica.

There's no high horse here bud. Toyota said they're coming out with a spiritual successor to the ae86, so lets keep that in perspective. If this was a "spiritual" successor to the Celica, I wouldn't be in here throwing lines and arguing with people why the car should have a namesake after the AE86.

Lastly, no, not just because Toyota came to club4ag. Do you even read articles? Have you followed nothing? Does the name FT-86 even remotely consider anything closely to AE86? Ahhrrmm....lots of evidence showing exactly what car the FT is being molded after. But nevermind the actual spoken words from Toyota themselves.

Secondly, before the celica was awd and turbo, it was rwd and lightweight, long before the AE-86 existed. This FT-86 is an economic, lightweight, rwd sportscar for the masses, a japanese 4 cyl/ v6 mustang if you wanna put it that way, the exact same car the celica was before it gave way to the supra.

The statement, about a successor being awd, etc. was aimed at the constant factoid spewage of the Celica's success in WRC, which is very well documented. No matter which/what way you wanna spin it, that was the hayday of the Celica: its rally years. It made its biggest mark upon car enthusiasts in this stage. Yes, the Celica was all of those things years before the AE86, but you have to remember that the ae86 is just another car in the long line of the sprinter trueno/levin series of corolla's, which actually dates back to the same beginning years of the celica, if you so much as want to play the "history" game.

Look bud, I don't know what got your panties in a crinkle, but all I've been doing is reminding people that this car wasn't brought about because of the huge following and success of the Celica. It was brought about by the AE86. Might be a tough fact for you to swallow, but hey, its true.

It should also be noted that whatever name this car gets matters little in the end-game. I'm going to buy one, even if it was called a Pinto Shittard Sport 2000. As I've stated many times before already, I suspect this car will get an all-new name, a way to symbolize a new era regarding Toyota's cars and how they go about making them.

[cyde01]

Originally Posted by White Comet

There is a potential legal issue. It's pure speculation as to what Chrysler would do if Toyota approached them with this. Plus, having used the same name themselves in the past, might further muddy the legals waters.

how is that possibly pure speculation? they have another 4 wheel vehicle with the same name, which they don't plan on discontinuing anytime soon. it's not speculation, that pretty much legally closes the door completely.

[White Comet]

Originally Posted by cyde01

how is that possibly pure speculation? they have another 4 wheel vehicle with the same name, which they don't plan on discontinuing anytime soon. it's not speculation, that pretty much legally closes the door completely.

Schroedinger's Cat.

We do not know what would come about with Toyota attempting to use the Sprinter name until a) they actually try, and b) Chrysler responds to this attempt. I'm not arguing with you. You're most likely correct, that Chrysler would object. But if Toyota used the term "Sprinter" on the tail end of a "base" model name, like, say, Shittard (good one, Old Skoo... I had to reference it!), so it would be the "Shittard Sprinter", maybe then it wouldn't be a legal issue? Maybe it would. But again, we don't know.

[cyde01]

YOU don't know. the rest of the world that knows even a little about trademark law does! it's the law, why would toyota even bother contacting chrysler? the name's already locked up as far as the north american market is concerned. i don't really care what they name it, i'm just saying it is common sense that they couldn't call it sprinter if another automobile is already called sprinter. even if they "used the term on the tail end of a base model name."