Newb question- springs vs coilovers

[wbradley]

Please advise, why get coilovers if lowering springs are avalable? Is there any drawback to the springs other that lack of height adjustability?...

Someone suggested that the shocks/struts will wear out prematurely. Is that true?


Thanks

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by wbradley

Please advise, why get coilovers if lowering springs are avalable? Is there any drawback to the springs other that lack of height adjustability?...

Someone suggested that the shocks/struts will wear out prematurely. Is that true?


Thanks

A lot of the answers for this depends on your goals. Lowering springs are fine IMO if they fit your needs. I will eventually run coilovers so I can run whatever rates I want to, have a damper that's rebuildable (and matched for what I'm doing with the rates), etc. There are lots of pros to good coilovers but IMO if you don't need the adjustability and are lowering for looks mostly than lowering springs are fine. Better dampers are a good idea once the stock ones die, and IMO they will die faster with lowering springs but it's rarely an instant death. About the only setup I can think that caused extremely quick death with Hondas anyways were Spoon springs, extreme lowering and very high spring rates... I haven't seen anything quite that extreme here yet and the OEM setup is overdamped so higher rates should have as bad of an effect as some other cars.

The really smart guys will give better answers though

[wbradley]

bump...more opinions?

[Gardus@Supersprint]

Springs alone are ok with limited lowering (-30mm) and progressive rates (read: Eibach Pro-kit)
They tend to reduce the life of the OEM dampers.
More so with firmer, shorter springs (H&R -45 mm for example).
In the end you will need shortened and more controlled dampers (Koni Sport, Bilstein B8s).
I thing that as a road setup this is very good and enough for most owners.

Coilovers have many advantages: you can lower the car "as much as you like", and they are designed to have good damping and a better control of the wheels.
I tried the same car with Eibach prokit springs and B8 Bilsteins and with a Bilstein PSS, same height, and the one with the PSS had better handling and comfort!

This for height only adjustable kits (KW Var.1, Bilstein PSS)

Then you get kits with multiple adjustements, and this open many options, you can set the height using scales for perfect balance, tune the bound and rebound setting to match the type of road you drive on usually, switch between road and track setups etc...

High end coilovers are also about quality, durability, ride quality...if you have the chance to test a car on Ohlins coilovers or other expensive ones you'll get the difference.

A side note: usually coilovers have also adjustable camber plates and solid top mounts, much more adapt for track use.

[diirk]

Personally, I think if you're asking that question, then you don't need coil-overs yet. Get the springs and enjoy them until you have a need for coil-overs. In most cases, I'd only recommend coil-overs for someone aggressively doing track days or other events, or for show cars. Springs are perfect for a budget daily driver where someone is looking for a better stance and some modest performance gains with minimal impact to ride quality.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Coilovers:
Height adjustable
They usually include damper adjustability, but not always.
They're usually much firmer than a lowering spring.
More expensive
SOMETIMES better damping than stock (but not always).
SOMETIMES more travel than stock (but not always).
Use common spring size/shape for changing spring rates.

Coilovers are not automatically better than a lowering spring. Some coilovers suck, some springs suck. In the end, it is just a spring and a damper, there's nothing magical added to them. Coilovers are extremely useful if you want to corner balance your car or find yourself making adjustments often in an effort to dial in handling. They're often much firmer than stock which is good IF you have tires that need it and you track your car.

If you don't plan on tracking or autocrossing your car at all, most will recommend a good lowering spring instead of coilovers simply because to get a good coilover you often spend around $2k and up. You can still improve handling and track your car with a good lowering spring.

A good spring (read: RCE Yellows. ) will not lower the car too much and will improve handling. The really big drop springs are not designed with improving handling as a goal....30mm with a lowering spring in my opinion is too much. At that point you are sacrificing handling for style.

- Andrew

[Gardus@Supersprint]

On the GT86 less than -30 mm is not enough for me (for the looks I mean!)

I would only go with coilovers from a well known company, that would improve handling and looks without sacrificing the balance of the car (I actually would buy only Bilstein PSS9/10 or KW var 3)
@ Racecomp Engineering: I'd really like to test one of your setup!

Usually poor coilovers are too firm and ruin the ride on most cars.

[Racecomp Engineering]

You can go more than 30mm with a coilover for sure but not with springs IMO. Just not enough travel on the struts going that low with springs.

Gardus, the RCE Tarmac II coilovers are coming.

- Andrew

[Gardus@Supersprint]

Fact is I haven't got around to test drive the car yet!
We'll have it at the company next month and I'm really curious...

[wbradley]

The goal is really to lower the car to decrease the big gap in the wheel well. This is especially visible to me as we are installing the 5:AD body kit next week.

I want to stay with 17" rims but will probably upgrade to 9" width next year. Based on the writeup by Autoguide it might be better to not mess with wheel diameter, and keep the speedo accurate as well.

I doubt I'd do much tracking although it would be fun to eventually try.

So it looks like I'd need 30-60 mm lowering so perhaps coilovers is the way to go. Under 30mm probably defeats the purpose and ride quality is important as this car is a daily driver except in the winter.

Ths issue for me now is do I want to sink $2500.00 ish into lowering the car. My frend tells me that when you see a lowered shitbox Civic that has a crappy rough ride its usually just springs and dampers that are operating out of regular range and are shot as a result.

Another concern with coilovers...if a damper eventually fails (I hope to keep this car 10 years) can I get 1 replacement at a reasonable cost.

Thanks for the tips and please keep them coming...

[Turbowned]

The progressive rate springs that are designed for street use will be fine with your stock struts (Eibach, TEIN, RCE, Tanabe, etc.). You're better off just buying a set of springs right now, and if you like you can even swap out your dampers with adjustable units from Koni or equivalent. No sense wasting the money on coilovers when a set of <$300 springs will achieve the same effect that you want, which is lowering the car. The ride quality will generally be better with struts/springs vs. coilovers, too.

[genometuning]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

The progressive rate springs that are designed for street use will be fine with your stock struts (Eibach, TEIN, RCE, Tanabe, etc.). You're better off just buying a set of springs right now, and if you like you can even swap out your dampers with adjustable units from Koni or equivalent. No sense wasting the money on coilovers when a set of <$300 springs will achieve the same effect that you want, which is lowering the car. The ride quality will generally be better with struts/springs vs. coilovers, too.

[wbradley]

I wonder then what the right dampers and lowering springs costs vs coilovers.

So if I purchased the Eibach progressive springs anyone know, for example, what the expected cost on Koni shocks/struts is and the suggested model?

[86_ZN6]

Originally Posted by wbradley

I wonder then what the right dampers and lowering springs costs vs coilovers.

So if I purchased the Eibach progressive springs anyone know, for example, what the expected cost on Koni shocks/struts is and the suggested model?

koni yellows ranges from $150-200 a piece

i always tell people do it right and do it once.

spring/schock combo is fine and cheaper but down the line you might need/want coilovers

i say save up for good coilovers and just do it once.

you dont want to spend labor twice (if you dont know how to install yourself)