I didn't like the AT and I'm trying to understand why

[ngabdala]

Out of this thread discussion you seem to be the only one insulting other forum members. Congratulations

Originally Posted by Memphis

Yeah you guys are real lovers of the art of shifting. I bet you suck on that manual real well too.

[fiveoneoh]

wow, first of all I am surprised to see so many great responses, makes me feel welcome =))

Thanks everyone your perspectives on driving the automatic. It seems that for the most part based on most of these responses, the true spirit of the AT only comes alive on the racetrack or otherwise aggressive driving. I would be concerned that for DD it might be too boring.


For some perspective, my camera is completely manual, I still listen to vinyl, and I rip mp3s (because vinyls dont play so well in a car) at no less than 256kb. So I'm a bit of a purist, I guess you could say.


I don't know about anyone else, but I love the feeling of pressing down on the clutch and timing everything perfectly to give power to the car (OTOH, what a let down when I don't get it right, ha!) Doesn't anyone else feel happy chemicals released by their brain when heel toe is done perfectly, or is that just me?

Originally Posted by Jedi1

.....Even after 38 years I still get it wrong every once in awhile. ....

Reason 3. And this one is HUGE! My wife has a bad back. ...With this Auto, it's Game On for her again! Seeing her with a huge smile on her face while behind the wheel again is priceless!

I love rowing through a nice manual gear box. They are tons of fun and there is a certain satisfaction in getting everything right over the course of a lap or whatever road you happen to be on. There is also something amazing about getting the gearbox out of the way and hearing the car rev match perfectly every single time and snap off the upshifts with perfect precision. I like getting the gear box out of the way and concentrating on the task at hand. For me that task has always been about going faster! The new auto and dual clutch boxes are another tool to help accomplish that goal.

It's refreshing to know that even with all your years of experience, you don't always nail a perfect heel toe!

Your Reason 3 is a similar reason for me, as to why I am looking at the AT. I want the happy grin on my face with the AT, too! Will I get that on city streets though with a AT, since that is going to be 99% of my driving? [NOTE: this is not a suggestion of aggressive driving on public roads. During DD, you take what you can get, and if it's just shifting up and down, it still adds something to the drive. "What would I have equivalent with the AT?" is where I'm heading with this.]


Agreed with all of this, need a better test drive. Also would love to attend the track event if I could! senna, meet your match!

Originally Posted by Jedi1

IN all honestly. Unless your test drive was on a race track or a serious road (i.e. THE TWISTIES) you probably didn't have enough time or room to push the car into the level that these transmissions really begin to shine. IN order to appreciate these things in manual mode, they need to be driven hard!

Not saying you didn't get on it and I don't pretend to have a clue what your comfort level is behind the wheel. You could be Senna reincarnated for all I know. If you are Senna, there's a club race at Barber Motorsports Park this weekend. Stop by. We would love to meet you! : ). I would be willing to bet that a SERIOUS drive on track would at least get you a much better understanding of what these transmissions are capable of and why I and so many others look at them as a favorable tool and not the end of the art of driving.

Originally Posted by atledreier

The thing for me was that the AT was GREAT for when I drove the car hard, and I can only imagine how much fun it would be on a racetrack. But I got to try my daily commute, and after half an hour I was ready to rip both my hair out of my head and the damn gearbox processor out the window! When in D and driving a slow queue it was just idiotic and very, very annoying. Tried all the modes to make it behave like a normal AT bit it was just weird. Doing a constant 10mph, box in 2nd, then it may suddenly decide 3rd is a better option, but doesn't bother to revmatch and jerks. Stuff like that just irks the H**L out of me, and really put me off the AT for good. My DSG Golf occationally do something 'weird' too, but not nearly as often, and much less annoying.

^^ this is what i'm scared of. Would like to know what can be done to avoid this in a AT.

Originally Posted by jeebus

the reason you didn't like the AT is because automatic transmissions are fun-sapping lazy-people devices. Yeah they keep getting better, faster, more gears, better mileage....but in the end they are still automatics. They take away the control a clutch gives to the driver. They take away the feel as you row through a manual gearbox.

I have driven a number of modern, fantastic automatics. I appreciate them for what they are, but they do not belong in a sports car. Period.

^ trying to avoid a MT/AT debate, but yes I do agree

Originally Posted by Synack

These responses are fantastic, I would've never ever ever considered getting an automatic unless I read this thread. Alas, I am still pretty satisfied with my 6MT. I'd say if you are leaning towards the 6AT, let me just push you into the Auto pond, metaphorically.

^ no, not leaning, probably split 50/50 but for very different reasons for choosing either.

Originally Posted by M-17

After I was done with the scion test drive, I never thought that the auto sucked at all. And after getting behind the wheel of a manual BRZ, I knew I'd still prefer the M/T vs the A/T. I'd get the auto only if it meant that I was not going to be that serious with the BRZ when it comes down to having the car being tracked. Not that the auto can't actually compete with the manual, it just won't have the same niche that a manual gives back to the driver. So an auto for me for the daily routine/spirited drive and a manual for hard fun driving with the complete sense of control of the car.

^did you buy both?! Driving the AT, what specifically about it may you realize it did not "suck"?

Originally Posted by jadewbj

The other reason that I don't like this auto is it is not a real DSG which means it suffers more drivetrain loss than the manual. You loose about 10WHP with the auto from what I have seen.

^is that why I felt the AT seemed to have a bit of "lag" during driving?

Originally Posted by rwd_

three pedal minimum all day, everyday.

Automatic transmission would only be considered if I was handicapped beneath the waist.

^careful what you say, I was a MT snob once too. THen life showed me otherwise.

[Jedi1]

You asked whether the auto would make you grin in daily driving scenarios. My answer to that would be , that can only be decided by your preference and personality.

Here's a bit more background on me and possibly one of the biggest reasons I love the auto. I have been working in high end Motorsport Simulation software and hardware development for about 8 years. In short, I'm a geek! Every time the auto PERFECTLY rev matches or allows me to do things mid corner or shift in situations at an autocross that you would simply bang the rev limiter or lug the car off a corner, I get an uncontrollable grin. I've said this multiple times in this thread. The auto is a tool that enables ME to drive in deeper, shift up or down where this simply would not be possible with a manual and in general keep the chassis balanced at a higher level than is possible with a manual. Can I extract serious performance from a manual? Damn Skippy! Would I have been every bit as happy with the Manual in an FRS? YEP! Do I regret my choice of transmission for even a second? NOPE! It appeals to the tech geek side of my personality and I can't wait to explore the upper limits of this transmission further.

[Memphis]

Originally Posted by ngabdala

Out of this thread discussion you seem to be the only one insulting other forum members. Congratulations

Really? Because I thought I was being nice. I was just responding to this comment...

the reason you didn't like the AT is because automatic transmissions are fun-sapping lazy-people devices. Yeah they keep getting better, faster, more gears, better mileage....but in the end they are still automatics. They take away the control a clutch gives to the driver. They take away the feel as you row through a manual gearbox.

I have driven a number of modern, fantastic automatics. I appreciate them for what they are, but they do not belong in a sports car. Period.

Which seems pretty blatantly directed towards people with an automatic... You can obviously see how he feels about them. Id say its an insult but I guess I could be wrong.

So I thought I would just share what I thought about these manual drivers out there that think they are the cream of the crop and like to "diss" other people about their selection of a transmission.

Oh, and how that transmission somehow ends up labeling its driver.

Apparently that makes F1 drivers lazy. Just saying.

And before anyone says its not an automatic I dont give a shit. They still aint rowing their own gears. Hell this guy has a steering wheel that has buttons to give the man water.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/08/11/r...-costs-25-000/

[Memphis]

Originally Posted by Jedi1

You asked whether the auto would make you grin in daily driving scenarios. My answer to that would be , that can only be decided by your preference and personality.

Here's a bit more background on me and possibly one of the biggest reasons I love the auto. I have been working in high end Motorsport Simulation software and hardware development for about 8 years. In short, I'm a geek! Every time yge auto PERFECTLY rev matches or allows me to do things mid corner or shift in situations at an autocross that you would simply bang the rev limiter or lug the car off a corner, I get an uncontrollable grin. I've said this multiple times in this thread. The auto is a tool that enables ME to drive in deeper, shift up or down where this simply would not be possible with a manual and in general keep the chassis balanced at a higher level than is possible with a manual. Can I extract serious performance from a manual? Damn Skippy! Would I have been every bit as happy with the Manual in an FRS? YEP! Do I regret my choice of transmission for even a second? NOPE! It appeals to the tech geek side of my personality and I can't wait to explore the upper limits of this transmission further.

Apparently this guy is lazy ^ He sure doesnt seem to have much fun out there in an auto that can do everything a manual can do except launch.

In the end it is personal preference. Its been said over and over again. Depends on what you want.

People just need to stop using little backhanded comments when they give their reasons for why you should choose a over b. Its not hard to do it just requires you to put down your lotion and tissue for a minute.

[Jedi1]

One last thing and then, SLEEP!

People keep coming back around to the auto in these cars being slower through every speed test than the manual. While it is definitely true that the drive train loss is higher in the auto than a manual, the time to speed differences in these cars is exaggerated due to an economy based gear set in the auto box. If the gear ratios in both transmissions were equalized, these tests would show the auto times a whole lot closer to if not quicker than the manual.

If you think you can shift quicker than the auto in this car, I'm sorry to bust anyone out there's bubble, it's not happening. Unfortunately physics are physics.

Now, back to the original topic. Buy the car that makes you smile. Whether you are driving it 3 miles to the store or 150 mph into the braking zone for 10a at Road Atlanta, LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO DRIVE SOMETHING THAT DOES NOT STIR YOUR SOUL!

[Shizuma]

Originally Posted by ngabdala

I've driven AT for 18 years and in the past 2.5 years MT. MT is the way to go. I never state anything as fact. It's IMO.

Dude, you should commit to learning MT then make a decision. I had to face my fears of trying out a different transmission. Do the same and be rewarded. What have you got to lose? If it's not for you it's not for you but you won't know until you give it a try. It's not like taking the chance on running a nuclear reactor.

First off, not a "dude", second unless you're doing something stupid like street racing or if you take your car to the track (I do neither) there's no real reason for the manual, third is that now a days automatics get better fuel economy than manuals, and with gas prices as they are even when buying a sports car that is a consideration, and lets face it, 30mpg highway is sad for 200hp 2.0 4cyl. I do drive my car probably 95% of the time in manual mode, but there's no way I would give up that 5% time of not using it cause honestly things like holding my girlfriend's hand while driving rates higher to me than manually shifting gears ever could.

[atledreier]

Originally Posted by Shizuma

First off, not a "dude", second unless you're doing something stupid like street racing or if you take your car to the track (I do neither) there's no real reason for the manual, third is that now a days automatics get better fuel economy than manuals, and with gas prices as they are even when buying a sports car that is a consideration, and lets face it, 30mpg highway is sad for 200hp 2.0 4cyl. I do drive my car probably 95% of the time in manual mode, but there's no way I would give up that 5% time of not using it cause honestly things like holding my girlfriend's hand while driving rates higher to me than manually shifting gears ever could.

So get the auto. For most of us, shifting gears while driving spirited and/or on track account for 95% of the enjoyment, regardless of the actual amount of time spent.

[ABQautoxer]

Well at least everyone didn't get defensive about their preference.

Just keep test driving the auto if you think its what you want. It might take several test drives to figure this out. I literally test drove an FRS 3 times before I finally bought a BRZ (no BRZs to test drive but that's a long, irrelevant story).

Unless you are racing it really doesn't matter at all IMO. I race, thus a manual. If the auto were faster for what I do, I'd have one. I enjoy PDKs for racing so I can just left foot brake everywhere, but I don't care for how they behave inching along at 5-10mph in traffic, they really don't do that well but a non-issue for me. One plus for me is if I had gotten an automatic, my wife might drive the car. She's only had manuals until we got her an Acura TL a several years ago and now in an IS350 she'll never go back to a manual again. So no right or wrong. I love manuals but to say its not a real sports car without one, you really need to get out and take a look at some of the high end cars again. That 458 I drove really made me convinced its just a matter of time before I won't be manually shifting anymore.

[Turbowned]

There's no way to have a thread in this forum with "transmission" in the title and not start a heated "MT vs AT" debate

I preach for the Church of Manuals because they're a dying breed (at least in good ol' 'Merica), and I want to keep them alive and show people the fun they can have while operating one. I try not to hate on autos too much, I just don't want to see the third pedal disappear in cars altogether. There are certain cars that I feel deserve a manual or automatic transmission. For example, I would never buy a sports car with an auto, and on the flip side I would never buy a truck with a manual. Rowing gears in a truck is not typically fun. The shifter is tall, balky, and sloppy and the drivetrain shudder from shifting can be obnoxious. Conversely, I feel that letting the transmission do all the work for me in a sports car takes fun away from the experience of driving a sports car. It's all a matter of preference, as it's already been said 100 times. I don't prefer a revolver to an automatic pistol, nor do I prefer a straight razor to a Mach 3 (I do prefer a Mach 3 to an electric though), but I prefer a clutch pedal in most cases to a shift module.

[RYU]

I'm personally tired of reading about why MT is God's gift to cars. You guys like to row the gears manually... Trust me. We get it. I still own a manual so I get it. Please no need to tell the world for the Nth time AGAIN unless you guys really like to hear yourselves talk online. Please.. my "ears" are bleeding here.

This thread is about the qualities of the Toyota 6AT and what makes it good/bad for the OP.

[JWA]

Originally Posted by ngabdala

IMO auto will always take away from the driver experience which is what this car was designed to do. I would also include a dual-clutch tranny with a lessened driver experience.

My thoughts exactly. If you are buying a car to race competitively where laptime is all that matters, then go with a dual-clutch auto. If you are buying a car for the driving experience, you can't beat a manual. I've owned them all and the novelty of DSGs and PDKs for street use wears off very quickly. Then the boredom sets in.

[Jedi1]

Pretty much every post in this thread should end with "for me" or "in my opinion", mine included. This is not a black and white issue. There are grey areas within this debate that can only be settled by your personal prefference. I tried to lay out exactly what "I" like about the auto. Hope it made sense to those that took the time to read it.

[RYU]

Originally Posted by Jedi1

You asked whether the auto would make you grin in daily driving scenarios. My answer to that would be , that can only be decided by your preference and personality.

Here's a bit more background on me and possibly one of the biggest reasons I love the auto. I have been working in high end Motorsport Simulation software and hardware development for about 8 years. In short, I'm a geek! Every time the auto PERFECTLY rev matches or allows me to do things mid corner or shift in situations at an autocross that you would simply bang the rev limiter or lug the car off a corner, I get an uncontrollable grin. I've said this multiple times in this thread. The auto is a tool that enables ME to drive in deeper, shift up or down where this simply would not be possible with a manual and in general keep the chassis balanced at a higher level than is possible with a manual. Can I extract serious performance from a manual? Damn Skippy! Would I have been every bit as happy with the Manual in an FRS? YEP! Do I regret my choice of transmission for even a second? NOPE! It appeals to the tech geek side of my personality and I can't wait to explore the upper limits of this transmission further.

hopefully this isn't too far OT but i'd be interested in your thoughts on if you noticed any signs that this trans will eventually need a trans cooler. It's been on the back of my head but haven't received my car yet.

Does the OBDII in this car have a trans temp readout?