I didn't like the AT and I'm trying to understand why

[Atticus808]

Originally Posted by jeebus

the ISF? really? I find it hard to believe that we have a diff from a 400+hp car.

i think he means is350

also, this is a good thread

[Shizuma]

Originally Posted by ngabdala

IMO auto will always take away from the driver experience which is what this car was designed to do. I would also include a dual-clutch tranny with a lessened driver experience.

I hate how MT people seem to be obsessed with saying this, does ABS take away from the driving experience because you no longer have to pump the brakes like you used to? Of course not, or maybe automatic starters as opposed to the hand crank starters of the old days. Manually shifting gears is no more a part of the experience of driving as pumping the brakes is when you stop, or any other feature of the car that's been made automated over the years. If you like being forced to manually shift your car 100% of the time then more power to you, but having an automatic doesn't take away from the driving experience for those of us who could care less about having to shift the car ourselves all the time. I know I've never once felt oh, this car is no fun because I'm not constantly having to depress a clutch all the time.

[jeebus]

Originally Posted by Shizuma

I hate how MT people seem to be obsessed with saying this, does ABS take away from the driving experience because you no longer have to pump the brakes like you used to? Of course not, or maybe automatic starters as opposed to the hand crank starters of the old days. Manually shifting gears is no more a part of the experience of driving as pumping the brakes is when you stop, or any other feature of the car that's been made automated over the years. If you like being forced to manually shift your car 100% of the time then more power to you, but having an automatic doesn't take away from the driving experience for those of us who could care less about having to shift the car ourselves all the time. I know I've never once felt oh, this car is no fun because I'm not constantly having to depress a clutch all the time.

I have owned around 20 cars. Up until my last one, they were all manuals. I bit the bullet and bought a BMW 335d with an automatic because they don't offer a manual in that car. It was a fantastic automatic. Predictable, quick, smooth. But every single day I drove it I felt my soul being sucked away just that much more. So even though it was ridiculously fast (chipped with ~540tq), it just didn't do it for me because shifting matters that much. So I sold it and bought a BRZ. I don't miss the BMW one bit.

So you see, while we MT freaks might be a little crazy to you autotragic drivers, we are the more passionate drivers and we know what we want. How often do you find an automotive journalist say they'd prefer the automatic....like almost never. There's a reason for that.

And yes, ABS does take away a little bit of the driving experience and feel, but the benefits outweigh the cons in almost all cases. I have raced non-ABS vehicles and my brain just cannot process fast enough to pump to avoid lockup in all situations. My brain can, however, process fast enough to shift. So I wouldn't really say this comparison is valid.

[Memphis]

Originally Posted by jeebus

I have owned around 20 cars. Up until my last one, they were all manuals. I bit the bullet and bought a BMW 335d with an automatic because they don't offer a manual in that car. It was a fantastic automatic. Predictable, quick, smooth. But every single day I drove it I felt my soul being sucked away just that much more. So even though it was ridiculously fast (chipped with ~540tq), it just didn't do it for me because shifting matters that much. So I sold it and bought a BRZ. I don't miss the BMW one bit.

So you see, while we MT freaks might be a little crazy to you autotragic drivers, we are the more passionate drivers and we know what we want. How often do you find an automotive journalist say they'd prefer the automatic....like almost never. There's a reason for that.

And yes, ABS does take away a little bit of the driving experience and feel, but the benefits outweigh the cons in almost all cases. I have raced non-ABS vehicles and my brain just cannot process fast enough to pump to avoid lockup in all situations. My brain can, however, process fast enough to shift. So I wouldn't really say this comparison is valid.

Yeah you guys are real lovers of the art of shifting. I bet you suck on that manual real well too.

[M-17]

After I was done with the scion test drive, I never thought that the auto sucked at all. And after getting behind the wheel of a manual BRZ, I knew I'd still prefer the M/T vs the A/T. I'd get the auto only if it meant that I was not going to be that serious with the BRZ when it comes down to having the car being tracked. Not that the auto can't actually compete with the manual, it just won't have the same niche that a manual gives back to the driver. So an auto for me for the daily routine/spirited drive and a manual for hard fun driving with the complete sense of control of the car.

[Spartan65]

There was a good article here that touched on the transmissions, alot of speculation on if Toyota would actually have the AT regeared since the ISF was an Eight speed. If they did, the AT will allow for more torque than the 6MT ever would. But the LSD is an ISF piece not an IS350 piece, that;s one reason why it was to easy for TOMEI.JP to tool up one for the car so quick.

http://kaizenfactor.wordpress.com/20...e-know-so-far/

http://www.tomeiusa.com/2010top/media/media-e.html

http://www.aisin-aw.co.jp/en/product...eup/index.html

[jadewbj]

Originally Posted by Shizuma

I hate how MT people seem to be obsessed with saying this, does ABS take away from the driving experience because you no longer have to pump the brakes like you used to? Of course not, or maybe automatic starters as opposed to the hand crank starters of the old days. Manually shifting gears is no more a part of the experience of driving as pumping the brakes is when you stop, or any other feature of the car that's been made automated over the years. If you like being forced to manually shift your car 100% of the time then more power to you, but having an automatic doesn't take away from the driving experience for those of us who could care less about having to shift the car ourselves all the time. I know I've never once felt oh, this car is no fun because I'm not constantly having to depress a clutch all the time.

The other reason that I don't like this auto is it is not a real DSG which means it suffers more drivetrain loss than the manual. You loose about 10WHP with the auto from what I have seen.

For me I just feel more connected to the driving experience when I row through the gears. Other than ABS the starter or any of the other automated improvements don't connect you to the driving experience. Even ABS is debatable because it is mainly used when you hard stop not brake in corners.

[TurnOne]

Automatics are boring to me. I just don't enjoy the drive. M/T's are more fun. Sure, it is getting harder and harder to justify why manuals are better than Auto's as autos are now getting faster, better mileage and very reliable.
Despite that, I'll cling to the 3 pedal cars until I get older and change (40 now) or they don't offer them anymore.
On the BRZ/FR-S you save $1100.

[Jedi1]

To say that "drivers of manual transmission cars are more passionate about the art of driving than auto trans drivers" is just plain ludicrous!

Manuals require a different approach than a good modern day auto (dual clutch or torque converter based). The experience, for me, is COMPLETELY different from manual to auto, but no less satisfying when switching from one type to the other. If you prefer one over the other, cool. Go out and enjoy the drive.

[jeebus]

Originally Posted by Jedi1

To say that "drivers of manual transmission cars are more passionate about the art of driving than auto trans drivers" is just plain ludicrous!

no, it's just true.

[Jedi1]

If it's true, FOR YOU, that's great.

[Bigmaxy]

I also only had the option to test drive a GT A/T vehicle and didn't really get the involvement I was hoping for. I don't have anything against A/T and my last 4 cars have been auto's.
I don't blame the transmission for the lack of joy though, I think it was more having the salesman jammed in the back going on about blah blah blah and due to the wet weather having to drive the car sensibly and not being able to give it much with the sales guy there.

I once drove a golf GTI and left with a big smile. I hope to get that with the GTS MT that I went ahead and ordered anyway.

[ngabdala]

I've driven AT for 18 years and in the past 2.5 years MT. MT is the way to go. I never state anything as fact. It's IMO.

Dude, you should commit to learning MT then make a decision. I had to face my fears of trying out a different transmission. Do the same and be rewarded. What have you got to lose? If it's not for you it's not for you but you won't know until you give it a try. It's not like taking the chance on running a nuclear reactor.

Originally Posted by Shizuma

I hate how MT people seem to be obsessed with saying this, does ABS take away from the driving experience because you no longer have to pump the brakes like you used to? Of course not, or maybe automatic starters as opposed to the hand crank starters of the old days. Manually shifting gears is no more a part of the experience of driving as pumping the brakes is when you stop, or any other feature of the car that's been made automated over the years. If you like being forced to manually shift your car 100% of the time then more power to you, but having an automatic doesn't take away from the driving experience for those of us who could care less about having to shift the car ourselves all the time. I know I've never once felt oh, this car is no fun because I'm not constantly having to depress a clutch all the time.

[rwd_]

three pedal minimum all day, everyday.

Automatic transmission would only be considered if I was handicapped beneath the waist.