First Drive - CEL - Cam Sprocket Fix

[Hotlava86]

yes the engine has to be torn down to an extent to get the timing actuator out http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7235/7...c7896bf9_k.jpg

[cnk]

Was able to find the procedure in the Partial Engine Assy section of the BRZ Engine PDF that is posted as a sticky here: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8374

An additional step to remove the crankshaft pulley and then timing chain/belt cover, but not a complete engine disassembly. Same process as changing out a timing chain which is normally a few hours. Then again, what's simple for some may seem very complicated for others, but you can read the steps in the link above and judge for yourself how difficult it is.

[soconfoozed]

Originally Posted by eurospeed

Several people have been over 2500 miles with their first CEL related to this issue. The highest recorded here is 5700 miles. Toyota claims this may be an issue with debris (metal chips) clogging the VVT cam sprocket oil passages. Considering some of these higher mileage occurrences, I'm not sure the chip theory makes sense.

Whoa, whoa, where are you seeing this chip claim being made?

[JP]

older quad AVCS subaru engines could sometimes throw timing CEL's when the AVCS filters got clogged with debris or the wrong oil was used. I'd be extremely suprised if there aren't filters on the FA20 AVCS solenoids.

Edit: Did some research, there are filters on the FA20 solenoid feeds, they're just much harder to get at than on the EJ engines. Page EM-31 of the engine repair manual if anyone's interested.

[eurospeed]

Originally Posted by soconfoozed

Whoa, whoa, where are you seeing this chip claim being made?

This came straight from my dealer after they had spoken to Toyota. Not a very reassuring thought... Is it really the reason? We likely won't know without disassembling and inspecting the cam sprockets.

[White64Goat]

Ordered an oil filter magnet this morning and will install before car leaves the dealers lot. Doesn't mean that particles won't already have circulated through the engine, but I figure another ounce of prevention may be worth it it the end. The filtermag website has some pretty convincing pictures of filters that were taken apart after only an hour of useage.

Even if particles don't end up being the cause of the engine problems, it's still more protection for the engine. At around $94 it comes out to be about 5.1 cents a day if you keep your car for 5 years. Well worth the price.

[soconfoozed]

Originally Posted by eurospeed

This came straight from my dealer after they had spoken to Toyota. Not a very reassuring thought... Is it really the reason? We likely won't know without disassembling and inspecting the cam sprockets.

That really seems like a "fool me once" issue, where "once" would have to be sometime back in the '60s. I would be very, very surprised...from an engineering perspective, I think one could rightly call missing such a defect irresponsible. It's difficult to discuss something like this without the words "killing engines" coming up, and that isn't really productive, because it's just going to make people worry about something that probably isn't the culprit. But, I can make up all kinds of scenarios in my head with respect to how this could lead to disastrous results. And that's part of what engineering is about...anticipating failure modes and then designing proactively to address them.

That's why I feel like this is so unlikely to be the case. Everybody involved in the process knows to keep flash, burrs and washing debris off of the final casting. The engineers know how to design parts to minimize casting defects. The materials guys know to specify alloys that cast nicely. The toolmaker knows how to finish a mold with surfaces that shut off correctly. The quality guys know how to inspect parts for anything that could lead to an issue with the part installed in assembly. And the manufacturing guys know damn well what bad parts look like, and when to send the soup back to the kitchen instead of bolting up a bad part.

I would be apoplectic if this turned out to be the problem. I think I can say I wouldn't want the car anymore.

Edit: oh lol, sprocket assemblies themselves, or TC cover? I was thinking of TC cover, but most of what I wrote still applies.

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by soconfoozed

That's why I feel like this is so unlikely to be the case. Everybody involved in the process knows to keep flash, burrs and washing debris off of the final casting. The engineers know how to design parts to minimize casting defects. The materials guys know to specify alloys that cast nicely. The toolmaker knows how to finish a mold with surfaces that shut off correctly. The quality guys know how to inspect parts for anything that could lead to an issue with the part installed in assembly. And the manufacturing guys know damn well what bad parts look like, and when to send the soup back to the kitchen instead of bolting up a bad part.

Sorry but your faith in humanity is far too wide spread, you obviously don't work in manufacturing, people are lazy, inherently lazy, and when they are making money for someone else more than themselves their vested interest is very low, accountability is no longer PC.


not to mention I got a call from a friend that works at the toyota dealership several blocks from where I work, asking my if BRz's were having the same "chips in the pan" problem as FRs's...I told him I had heard of no such issue, he said they have 2 FRs's in to get something changed in the motor because there were chips in the pan "or something"

It was the first I had heard of it...this thread marks the second, and they couldn't be less related occurrences, my friend doesn't know about this forum, and is not a FRs guy he just noticed the cars and asked because he knew I had one and was keeping an eye out...

[thejevans]

I'm having this problem. I installed the perrin crank pulley and a new intake. Should I switch them back to stock before I take the car into the dealership?

[alrashwa]

You really shouldn't have to, but I personally would switch them back just so they don't yank your chain on the aftermarket parts. We know it's a manufacturer defect, but don't give them any reason to doubt you.

[choi0706]

i have a cel pop up yesterday.. mine has this throttle lag, and rpm dip, the engine is "searching for a idle"

the clutch feels like air.........

[Hammer]

So I just got a call from the service department at santa monica, and guy says no car today. They started taking apart Primo's car and mine on Friday, worked on them on Saturday, and it is taking a lot more work than they expected. Now he says they need to remove the chain to remove the Cam Sprocket that they are replacing. So it looks like one more day to even find out if this works. I told the guy about all the other parts that people with other brz/frs have had to replace for this problem and all he could say was that its a new car and they will take it one step at a time. I'm still hopeful but trying not to get my hopes to high.

[cnk]

I can't believe that they didn't know they would have to remove the chain when it's in the disassembly instructions in the service manual.

[alrashwa]

I finally managed to get my case out of the Hell that is "Scion Customer Experience." I'm dealing with a regional manager since my case has been almost a month now. I'm expecting some serious compensation for all this time that they've used my car as a test bed.

What I'm really concerned about is resale value. If this fix shows up on a carfax, you know people are gonna back out. Anyone have experience with how the carfax reports correlate to warranty work? I think someone was saying they only show accident damage, but I thought I remember seeing service history on a car report in the past as well...