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BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics All discussions about the first-gen Subaru BRZ coupe |
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08-26-2012, 04:38 PM | #85 |
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This is a nice video. The second run with the VSC on sport allows a little oversteer before intervening. Also the fastest run through the slalom of the 3 modes. The slowest? The runs with the VSC off. Doing donuts doesn't help lap times. At higher speeds that guy would be off in the weeds- or up a tree.
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08-26-2012, 05:07 PM | #86 |
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Really people? TC and VSC are gonna make a difference if you get into an accident? My last car got totaled because someone ran a red light and T-Boned me doing 40mph (because the cops couldn't prove she was going any faster). Traction control wouldn't have done a damn thing. So please, before you go ahead and get self righteous on anyone who thinks about turning the electro-nannies off, step off your soap box and think about it for a minute. The nannies are designed to keep a retarded monkey from doing burnouts, and to give you more traction on slippery/sandy roads.
Now I'LL step off MY soapbox Sent from...somewhere? |
08-26-2012, 07:38 PM | #87 | |
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Unrelated to the present discussion. No one is saying VSC prevents all accidents. Is it your position that since it is possible to crash with system switched on, VSC is incapable of preventing or assisting in the prevention of accidents? Last edited by cgrey; 08-26-2012 at 07:56 PM. |
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08-26-2012, 11:39 PM | #88 | |
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Well, I suppose you are entitled to your own opinion, as is everyone here. But here are some quotes from the IIHS and NHTSA (pretty sure they are safety experts): "NHTSA estimates electronic stability control is going to save 5,300 to 9,600 lives and prevent 156,000 to 238,000 injuries in all types of crashes annually." "IIHS states that about half of the fatal passenger vehicle crashes that occur each year involve a single vehicle. The IIHS says equipping vehicles with stability control can reduce the risk of involvement in these crashes by nearly 50 percent. It may also reduce the risk of rollovers by more than 70 percent." I'm not saying we shouldn't have fun with our cars. If you want boring transportation buy a Camry. But setting the car's VSC in sport mode instead of shutting it totally off will probably not limit fun at all on city streets and may save people (some of us?) from ending up in a tree or worse.
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08-26-2012, 11:49 PM | #89 |
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I can't judge the twin's traction and stability programs since I haven't really tested them, but I will say both are pretty damn bad on my Si. They make the car unpredictable and in some conditions actually cause a loss of control that otherwise wouldn't have occurred with these programs turned off which I've tested a decent amount on closed courses.
I like having it as an option, mostly to assist in climbing slippery surfaces but other than that it is off. Fortunately tapping it once will toggle the system, unlike these new cars where you have to hold the damn button down
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08-27-2012, 01:56 AM | #90 | |
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My position is that VSC and traction control are not magical anti-crash devices, and having them is no replacement for proper car control. In many cases, the TC and VSC can cause a dangerous loss of power in an emergency situation (yes, there are times when using the throttle instead of the brakes can prevent an accident). The modern driver has become too dependent on driver control aids at the expense of actually learning car control, situational awareness, crash avoidance techniques, and simple common sense. The whole attitude of "VSC and TS should never be turned off on city streets" is a product of most drivers being incapable of controlling a car in anything but straight line travel. And no, I don't believe the IIHS and NHTSA are "safety experts." The IIHS is operated by insurance companies (its in the title people) which are made up primarily of lawyers. The NHTSA is a government agency tasked with making sure American drivers are safer; because that's what the government is for right? Making sure we're all safe from ourselves. These two institutions are run by lawyers, and lawyers are no safety experts, they are there to keep the people they represent from being sued. That may sound cynical, but take a look at the majority of US traffic "safety features" and how their use has been 'mandated.' A few people have even said it here "the black box crash data would show that you had TC/VSC off when you spun out into another driver, so you'd be at fault in an accident" and "I would have to think that even a pre-law student could just utterly slam you if you got into an accident and were found to have disabled driver aids, particularly in a sportscar." There, THAT is my position, now please don't try to put words in my mouth, yours taste like asshole, I can put shitty words there myself. |
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08-27-2012, 02:11 AM | #91 | |
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Disclaimer: I'm sure there are some very good drivers here who probably are safe turning the nannies off. But the majority of the posters here are simply delusional...and unfortunately they'll probably have to learn that the hard way... |
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08-27-2012, 02:17 AM | #92 | ||||||||
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I might say you're arguing from ignorance except you wouldn't understand what it meant and in addition you seem too ignorant to understand your own argument. Last edited by cgrey; 08-27-2012 at 02:32 AM. |
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08-27-2012, 02:48 AM | #93 |
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I never said that VSC is incapable of assisting in the prevention of accidents, so you did put those words there, not me. My ORIGINAL point was that people who attack others for daring to turn the nannies off, as you have done to me, should get off their soapbox and realize that said nannies aren't perfect, nor are you perfect, preaching from your pulpit of driving lordship.
But you're more than welcome to attack me instead of facing the fact of what I actually said: Traction control is not a magical anti-crash device. Does it keep some people from getting into certain kinds of accidents? Yes. Does it keep most people from getting themselves into situations where they could wreck? Yes. Does shutting it off on public roads increase your likelihood of certain types of accidents? Sure. Do the people that turn traction control off on public roads all think they're ricky-racer? No. Please stop demonizing people who turn SOME of the driving aids off, it makes you looks foolish. There are diehards in both camps, but the beauty of the system is: you can do whatever you want to with it, if you screw up, you get to pay the consequences. And while you're making wild assumptions about my driving skill or habits, I'll let you in on a little secret. I leave all the nannies on because my commute is on boring straight city roads, and I haven't had this car long enough to get used to how it handles yet. But I'm just a teenage boy-racer who doesn't know how to drive and is more likely to spin out and crash into other cars on the road because I have no self-control and am a danger to all other motorists, so I wash my hands of this discussion. |
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08-27-2012, 02:54 AM | #94 | |
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I cant speak for automatic transmission but in MT with no buttons pushed, and taking a corner while accelerating out of a corner is painful, power cutting out is ridiculously frustrating... atleast with vsc on, its less harsh
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08-27-2012, 07:33 PM | #95 |
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VSC can save your ass I remember driving my 91 240sx and the roads were moist. I was driving along casually and all of the sudden I just started spinning. Scary stuff but the 86 is way more planted and I doubt that would happen.
heres a little tidbit I think yall should know. The blackbox that records information about a crash can only be used for R&D, the insurance company cant do anything with that information. I do believe that if theres a fatality that information can be used against you but thats it. |
08-27-2012, 07:41 PM | #96 |
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Public roads? On. Track? Off
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08-27-2012, 08:46 PM | #97 | |
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How fast were you "casually" going along?
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08-27-2012, 08:52 PM | #98 |
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Had it off, entered a turn, rear started to rotate, slight lift with no correction and it just planted and went.
Yes, I think the majority of drivers should keep it on, but for those with some experience, you can do so much more with it off.
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