TCS & VSC

[_F-R-S_]

Originally Posted by Skyhound

Worst advice ever, this is the reason so many FR-S's are getting totaled.

You really should be leaving both VSC and TCS ON when you're on public roads. ESPECIALLY if this is your first RWD car. Go to an empty parking lot and play around with the different settings, leave the wheel spin on the track dude.

well said..

[WatchmaN]

Seriously I read all the comments about leaving everything on and I have big questions mark on my face about the ablity of people driving a car, it's a 200hp car for god sake it,s not uncontrolable. First thing I do when a get in my car is turn everything off, and the only time I drift or my tale gets funny it's when I want it and do it on purpose. Exemple: I turn a 90 degree corner at 40km and push gaz will i'm turning then a loss the tale a bit but get it right back on track in a second. The granny mode will be back this winter in the snow. This is car very stable even without all the aids, haven't you read all the review and praise it gets for its handling?

[QFry]

In my experience (all 600+ miles so far) you do not have to try very hard at all with the nannies on to make noise, smoke or circles...be aggressive with them on is what i say, but thats just my .02$

[TuxedoCartman]

Originally Posted by Skyhound

Worst advice ever, this is the reason so many FR-S's are getting totaled.

You really should be leaving both VSC and TCS ON when you're on public roads. ESPECIALLY if this is your first RWD car. Go to an empty parking lot and play around with the different settings, leave the wheel spin on the track dude.

<pinches bridge of nose, in abject frustration> Okay, fellows... we need to talk.

First of all, cars have existed for years and years and years putting power to the rear-wheels, all without the benefit of electronic nannies. Did they wreck? Yes... but no more and no less than cars these days. Would you believe I've driven a NB Miata (daily driven), 96 Mustang Cobra, and most dramatically a 93 RX7 in the rain and the snow... and never wrecked, spun out, nor lost control in any fashion? And my god, compared to any one of those vehicles (especially the RX7), the FR-S is a virtual GOD of grip and stability. Truthfully, I've learned to read "how easy it is to get the rear end out on this car" as "I have very little driving experience" or "I've never driven a real sports car in my life!"

Let me say again: years of driving much more powerful, less well-suspended, RWD cars, with no DSC or TCS... and I never wrecked. If I can do it, you can too; it's called "learning to drive responsibly".

As for "all these FR-S's being totaled"... I'd wager, per capita, there's more Corollas, Camry's... hell, pick any typical daily driver car... being wrecked than the FR-S. It only seems like there's a lot being wrecked because A) there's very few on the road, B) every single one that gets wrecked finds its way on here, and C) this car community has a confirmation bias about cheap, RWD coupes being marketed under the Scion name (i.e. we expect lots to be wrecked due to young hooligans trying to drift every corner). Most of the ones I've seen wrecked were NOT due to that, but rather the fault of someone else. In fact, I can only think of two accidents due to driver fault; in one of the cases the driver admitted his mistake, and in both of them the cars were hardly "totaled".

[jm1681]

Originally Posted by WatchmaN

This is car very stable even without all the aids, haven't you read all the review and praise it gets for its handling?

So because it's so great, I HAVE to turn stuff off?

It has nothing to do with ability, it has everything to do with the fact that 90% of the time (If not more), I (And probably a good number of us) am not in a situation where I'm going to benefit in any way from turning the aids off, so why bother doing so?

[WatchmaN]

What i'm saying is that you are not going to crash if you turn eveything off and drive normally on normal road. But if you want to drive it fast on roads with lots of curve and you don't have to much experiance then live it on. But please try it off and you'll see that it is not so bad, for me it's totally differant car with all aids off, and I get pissed at my self when I forget to take them off.

Last friday I went to show a friend my car, he has 400hp charger. I ask him do you have any twisty road so I can show you the handling of that car? He said yeah I have a circuit that I did maybe 50 times with my car. So we went with my car fisrt, it was night and i don't know the road. I had turn everything off and offf we went. He was amaze of how fast I could take those curves without even getting close to lose the car, it was a two way road very narrow and I never cross the other way line. Then we went with is car(remember he did that circuit 50 times and me none) completely a different story at same speed, he alway's had to cross the other way line to take is curves and still the tale would go out on him. It scared the shit out of me cause it was a very narrow road with lots of bumps.

Anyway do what you want guys, but you are missing on something if you never turn them off. And that ''thing'' is FUN

[jm1681]

Originally Posted by WatchmaN

Anyway do what you want guys, but you are missing on something if you never turn them off. And that ''thing'' is FUN

When I'm in a spot to have that fun safely, I will start turning things off.

But, when I'm commuting a major highway to work, or driving into town to get a slice of pizza, seems awfully pointless to bother.

[FirestormFRS]

Given that most manufacturers are going to continue using VSC and TCS on any car I don't see the need in "learning to drive without nannies". They're not going to magically go away.

I'm ancient and have been driving longer than some of you have been alive. I can drive without the nannies and be confident. Driving with them makes those sudden unexpected swerves a swerve and not a spin. Leave em on unless you have plenty of space and no one else to worry about I say

[S2kphile]

Man all these VSC/TSC threads might eventually lead to this


Sadly, so far I've seen more Scions then Subies getting damaged and these threads seem to turn up in the FRS section of the forums then the BRZ section.

[Kwaziekeller]

I'm not against TCS/VSC but I'm not for them either. Personally, I turn my FR-S to VSC Sport for 90% of my driving and TCS/VSC off when I want to play. I've attacked plenty of turns at a very spirited pace and have yet to get the car bent out of shape. I've only had the rear "wiggle" a couple of times, which is easily corrected with the quick steering ratio and a little counter-steer. By no means do I try to "drift". I'm not a "drifter" and never will be. Sure it's stylish, but it's a much slower way around a corner than a proper racing line. This car is 1000x easier to drive "hard" than other cars. It's lightweight and good suspension setup which leads to great handling characteristics. It's not as fast as a lot of higher HP cars out there, but it was not designed to be some "halo car" (i.e.... the Lexus LFA is Toyota's halo car).

I've driven in every road condition (rain,snow,sleet,ice,blizzard,fog etc) in my 15 years of driving in a variety of vehicles (cars,trucks,moving trucks etc) and never had a problem. My last car, an '07 Charger SRT8 with a procharger s/c (modded/installed by myself, 527whp/454tq) was A LOT harder to "drive fast" than the FR-S and I had it in all kinds of road conditions. Worst "white knuckle" experience of my life was driving that home to OH in a big freezing rain storm. I-55N was a perfect sheet of ice, semi's were stopping on the side of the road bc of poor road conditions, but I soldiered on, albeit @ like 30mph. It's called driving responsibly, and using common sense. I miss being able to drop it to 2nd, @ 60mph and lay some lines, but it'll be back soon enough with the FR-S.

My .02 on TCS/VSC (whatever you wanna call the electronic nannies). They are not driver aids, they are safety features. They are not there because Subaru/Toyota thought they need to be there to make the car drive-able or easier to control. They are there because the government mandates that they HAVE to be there (I believe, in the US it's any car after 2010 has to have them). The electronics are there to provide a level of safety for the driver in driving conditions or when carrying a little too much speed into a turn, but they cannot save you all of the time.

Moral of the rant... If you want to find the limits of the car, go to a track/road course/auto-x or an empty parking lot, turn everything off and drive. That's how we did it in the days before electronics. In normal driving, leave them on if you want, they are there for safety in case you are pushing a little too hard. They're a warm baby blanket making sure you stay safe... but they WILL NOT save you if you're trying to break the laws of physics.

[Slartibartfast]

Anyone know how to switch it so on start up it's in Sport mode, and one push for TC off. Normal mode could be switched to by pressing the VSC Sport button again (for rain or snow etc)
Is this something that could be programed with an ECU Tune? Or could there be another way?