VSC Sport, Trac Off, Both Off - Which do you use for normal driving?

[ultra]

I prefer to drive with everything off and simply *not* drive like an idiot on public roads.

The 'fear' makes me a much more attentive and cautious driver.

There's nothing worse than people driving like idiots these days just because their stability and traction control give them a false sense of security.

Caveat: in poor weather, bad conditions or intense traffic conditions I turn the aids back on for additional safety and drive even more cautiously.

[Zadkiel]

Originally Posted by michaelahess

I have no issue with turning it off, if you know what you are doing and accept the risks. I'm just saying there is very little reason to do so for normal everyday driving.

They put the buttons right there because this car is meant for track use.

ill86, re-read my last post, I specifically said that drivers should experience how the vehicle handles both with and without the nannies.

The simple reality is that the nannies could save your life, regardless of skill, that alone is reason enough to leave them on. I'm sorry but there is no debating the slight chance that a life could be saved.

I'd also like to point out that unlike most of us, a large portion of new drivers (like all of them) have grown up on cars with ABS and TC systems, they have no idea how a "raw" car handles, if they are lazy, and you know they will be, they won't test the limits of the car safely without the nannies, so they DEFINITELY need to leave them on.

I'm 26 and this is the first vehicle with TCS and VSC I've owned. Compared to my swapped 240SX I sold 2 years ago, this thing is a dream. Is it just me or does the TCS light still blink even when the nannies are off?

[feedbag]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

You make a few assumptions here.

1) That people turning off these features are doing so simply to drive recklessly.

2) That people turning off these features are incapable of driving safely without them.

3) That people turning off these features did not grow up driving more powerful RWD cars without them.











I've been in plenty of situations where T/C has been a hindrance, even a danger, mostly when it is far too aggressive and closes the damned throttle, killing all forward momentum when you need to continue accelerating to keep from getting hit. It's happened in both my G35 and my GTO where a tiny bit of manageable wheel slip has triggered far more intervention than needed.



LOLWUTUMEANTRACTIONCONTROL?!? ZOMGurgunnadie!!!

[wbradley]

Funny how we are trained to not only take technology for granted, but to think we are better off without it. Especially when these things (nannies) took years and years to develope and they have proven themselves time and time again to statistically imprive safety during the daily operation of a vehicle.

People want to drive on the streets in "track mode" all the time.

Maybe if the nannies were a brand new tech people wouldn't poo poo them.

[Neziah]

all joking aside, I leave mine on simply because I am too lazy to turn it off each time I start my car. But I do turn it off when I want to have it off to have some fun. Even then, on dry pavement, you have to really force the car to do anything that it would even react too.

[Hix]

I live down what is essentially a dirt road.. I leave the nannies on. Anyone who tells you they are useless and blah blah blah does not know what they even do.

[Zadkiel]

I don't think anyone is disputing their usefulness, I know I'm not. I'm just saying that experienced RWD drivers know how to control their cars if the handling becomes a little dicey. I think that an experienced driver would recognize the events taking place in the lead up to a loss of traction.

Let's assume neutral conditions, average temperature of 70-80 degrees F, no in-climate weather, e.t.c. With a communicate car such as this it's fairly easy to discern what is happening when you know what to look for. The low center of gravity and point of rotation let you know when the rear is starting to break loose. It definitely feels that the car rotates right underneath the drivers seat. Before that though, the tires should let you know that they're close to the limits of adhesion. With the stock rubber, that isn't hard to tell. These things howl nearing the limits, with the noise progressing to a squeal when the limit is reached.

That's not to say that the driver shouldn't recognize that these limits will occur quicker/not occur under certain load conditions. If I'm in a turn with a crest in the middle, the signs may not present itself at all do to the weight shifting. The same with off camber turns.

I agree that inexperienced drivers should drive/begin to explore the limits of the car with the TSC and VSC on. As they know the car better, its tendancies, e.t.c., they should spend some time with the aids partially disabled and then fully disabled. The driver aids are helpful, but in the instance I described previously, intervened in a heavy and sudden manner. With the aids off a similair incident was easily managed without drama. Like I said, they aren't useless, but I definitely think that turning them off should be shamed.

Turning them off isn't equal to "track mode" either. Just because I turn them off doesn't mean I think I'm Daijiro Yoshihara or Tom Kristensen.

[wbradley]

I concur that so far the car's handling has proven to be stable and predictable. And, I do like to have a little fun with it sometimes.
However, if I decide to drive this car in the winter the nannys stay ON! I do believe there is a significant added margin of safety for snow/ice with them.
Also, if I am doing my commute on the highway any time they stay on.

They get switched off every once in a while when I'm in the mood to play but based on the demographics of the majority of buyers here (younger male with little RWD experience) I'd say many should be more conservative for now.
I already rolled my car when I was 22 (I'm 48 now).

[russv]

Originally Posted by ABQautoxer

I disagree. This is much like anything, why shouldn't they be able to turn it off. Both companies, in all their wisdom, made it a button right next to the shifter. Sure seems convenient for something that so damn taboo. What so stupid about this whole debate is you do realize the number of cars that did not have these things for 100 years. I'm not saying they aren't an improvement, what I am saying is simply the idiots of the world will crash their cars anyway because in the end its personal judgement. You can still have some awesome crashes with all the nannies on.

I will agree with you to some degree. I would wager that most drivers today have only driven cars with the "nannies" and have never driven ones' without them. I learned to drive before they even existed and took the cars out to dirts roads to see how they handled so I would have at least some knowledge about their limits. Those of you who have owned the old VW bugs know what I'm talking about. That said, I would never turn the nannies off while driving on the street.

[TSY]

Originally Posted by feedbag

Is there a reason these are all FRS's? Maybe BRZ drivers are better?

One thing people have been saying is that they have been driving RWD cars for year. With Stability control automakers are able to set up the suspension more aggressively knowing the VSC will save an inexperienced driver. Before VSC a lot of these cars were purposefully set up to understeer to keep the people buying their cars safer. The stock setup on my 944 Turbo is conservative and when pushed will understeer. A few simple alignment changes and the car quickly becomes a handful even in experienced hands.

These cars are designed to handle well and they do, but they can become a handful if you're not paying attention all the time. The stability control will save you if you happen to lose concentration for a moment. . . Unless of course you turn it off, in which case we see what happens when our cars go off roading.

[ill86]

Every winter I overhear someone talking about how wonderful vsc is. How they were able to cruise to work without slowing down even with snowy and icy roads. All the while not realizing they're pushing the limit of the vehicle. Never even considering what would have happened without the electronic aids.

My friend in an FJ Cruiser bragged about how VSC saved him when he went into a turn too fast. He has no feel for the car. Relies on the electronics to drive it. What do you think happens when he drives another car without it? He crashes.

By all means leave the electronics on if that's what you like. But to tell others it's stupid to turn them off because you can't handle it is utterly ridiculous.

Learn to drive in a controlled environment with a professional instructor. Just so you can.. Even if you never want to. You'll be surprised at what you will learn.

I am available for hire for those around the Pittsburgh PA area. Skid pad and all...

Happy motoring.

[Zadkiel]

Originally Posted by TSY

Is there a reason these are all FRS's? Maybe BRZ drivers are better?

One thing people have been saying is that they have been driving RWD cars for year. With Stability control automakers are able to set up the suspension more aggressively knowing the VSC will save an inexperienced driver. Before VSC a lot of these cars were purposefully set up to understeer to keep the people buying their cars safer. The stock setup on my 944 Turbo is conservative and when pushed will understeer. A few simple alignment changes and the car quickly becomes a handful even in experienced hands.

These cars are designed to handle well and they do, but they can become a handful if you're not paying attention all the time. The stability control will save you if you happen to lose concentration for a moment. . . Unless of course you turn it off, in which case we see what happens when our cars go off roading.

The top one is a BRZ. Although how you spear off on a straight stretch of road is beyond me. I can only imagine they were trying to DORIFTO!!!!!!!!! like a bunch of tools.

[TSY]

Originally Posted by Zadkiel

The top one is a BRZ. Although how you spear off on a straight stretch of road is beyond me. I can only imagine they were trying to DORIFTO!!!!!!!!! like a bunch of tools.

Ah, didn't look carefully enough. Still, probably more wrecked FRSs than BRZs. Subaru owners tend to be more educated.

[S2kphile]

Gotta make sure to keep an eye out on junkyard for OEM parts. Seems like there is gonna be plenty to pick from. Here's hoping to find a FRS bumper intact