FR-S vs. 370z, end all be all of discussions

[Giccin]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

This thread has devolved into us finding out that fatoni doesn't know much about suspension or aero because he tracks a kart, which has neither.


Back on topic?



Yes, they're both 2 door FR coupes, but with a big price delta, different powertrain style, and likely a 2+2 vs. 2-seater configuration, are these cars comparable in the real world? To the uneducated buyer, I say yes. To the informed enthusiast, I say no.

Wow. The size is actually pretty close to that 350(?)z. o_O

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Giccin

Wow. The size is actually pretty close to that 350(?)z. o_O

But should hopefully be close to 900lbs lighter.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

But should hopefully be close to 900lbs lighter.

Amen to that.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by old greg

...the distance from the lower control arm pivot to the center of force of the contact patch does affect wheel rate. ...

You are honestly factoring the bending of the hubs into your wheel rate calculations?

If you put the wheel on the end of a 10 foot pole extending out from the hub, you will still have the exact same total stroke, thus the same wheel rate, as if the wheel was tucked in. Yes, the pole will bend, but that's because a 10 foot pole is going to bend.

Originally Posted by Giccin

Wow. The size is actually pretty close to that 350(?)z. o_O

You can see the car will be a few inches shorter pretty much the entire length of the profile. Factor in a lighter engine, not huge wheels & brakes, and take out Nissan's affinity for BMW-esque bulk and 2700 pounds sounds reasonable.

[Giccin]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

You can see the car will be a few inches shorter pretty much the entire length of the profile. Factor in a lighter engine, not huge wheels & brakes, and take out Nissan's affinity for BMW-esque bulk and 2700 pounds sounds reasonable.

Definitely.

Could shead a few pounds too~ I'd take out the factory seats and throw in some racing seats~~

:>

I'm still pretty curious to know what those wheel sizes are going to be. I also hope that the tiny window in the back isn't going to be a problem when checking for blind spots. I have that issue with my Yaris.

Btw, anyone else planning to change to a short shifter and shorter clutch-engager thing? lol I'm still learning. :P

[Dragonitti]

Sticking with the stock shifter. If they make shifter bushings then I will chage those, but sticking with the stock shifter.

[chulooz]

A short shifter might be one of my first mods if some reputable make a nice one. Especially if the stock piece is in any way lacking.

Avoiding sloppy shifts preserves the trans.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

But should hopefully be close to 900lbs lighter.

900? More like any ballpark range of 400-600, or 2600-2800 FR-S curb weight. Honestly if they got this car under 2600lbs I'd....I'd...well, I'd be ecstatic beyond belief.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

You can see the car will be a few inches shorter pretty much the entire length of the profile. Factor in a lighter engine, not huge wheels & brakes, and take out Nissan's affinity for BMW-esque bulk and 2700 pounds sounds reasonable.

edit edit: Damn technicalities. In any case, the Z IS a Grand Tourer, so the weight should be implied to be a bit on the heavy side. Honestly, 3200lbs is a pretty good figure for a car in that category.

Since the FR-S is not a GT car (at least, I hope Scion doesn't try to spin the car that direction...I suppose they could), it should be much lighter.

Editx3: I practically just sealed the thread in that statement. For so long, for some reason, that fact had escaped my mind. But people are comparing a GT class sports car to just a basic sports coupe. The very fact that the 370z is a GT car would imply that certain luxuries and gizmo's should be standard and expected, not to mention a fat robust engine.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

900? More like any ballpark range of 400-600, or 2600-2800 FR-S curb weight. Honestly if they got this car under 2600lbs I'd....I'd...well, I'd be ecstatic beyond belief.

Sorry. I read a bad link on wiki stating the 350 weighed 3600lbs. My bad.

[Ryephile]

I'm with OldSkoolToys in hoping Toyota/Scion keep the car minimal and don't go over-insulated with a GT philosophy. Hopefully we'll be pleased since Toyota keeps yammering on every press conference about a light weight philosophy.

[old greg]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

You are honestly factoring the bending of the hubs into your wheel rate calculations?

That isn't it at all. Picture an SLA suspension with unequal length/non-parallel arms. Sum the forces about the lower ball joint and you will see that the reaction force from the upper control arm has an upward component. Lower offset will cause higher reaction forces in the lower and upper control arm, and by extension increase the upward component of force acting on the upright.

The tire is pushed upward by normal force, and the upright is pushed upward by the upper control arm. Both of these forces must be reacted by the lower control arm and/or spring/damper.

As I said before, though less clearly perhaps, this upward force from the upper control arm isn't likely to be significant, but it does exist. There's something similar going on with MacPherson struts as well, though I can't really explain it only express it mathematically.

[Dragonitti]

Meh...don't make any difference anyway cause I want be running some crazy low offset.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by old greg

Lower offset will cause higher reaction forces in the lower and upper control arm, and by extension increase the upward component of force acting on the upright.

We'll have to agree to disagree until you provide proof. The primary reactive force from the upper control arm is laterally outward, not upward. This is why upper control arms can be so delicate; their main stressor is compression. You're describing a bending force, which is very much in the noise.