FR-S vs. 370z, end all be all of discussions

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by fatoni

also, you realize a widebody and what im assuming is a fucked offset is going to change your wheel rates and change the effectiveness of all the suspension youve dialed in. tein built the coilovers for a specific set of suspension geometries and you are going to change it all

How does offset change wheel rate?

[OldSkoolToys]

Dragon, stop arguing with Desert. "Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."

At this point in the time the mod's should have banned his ass for trolling. He's getting away with it because the security's light on these forums.

[blur]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Where are you getting this info from?

Note the AFAIK... from reading build threads, and how much turbo conversions realistically cost.

My tC has nothing to do with this. I didn't say My turbo kit was used or that I've put a used kit on it. However you can find GREAT name brand (among Scion owners that is) kits for sale by previous owners. A lot of times completely setup to run, as most of the time they have tunes already on the ECU. As a side note, if you were to run a stock ECU only on a tC, you would be limited to no more than 6lbs on a 16G turbo setup. That's about 230whp/230wtq you would get. My turbo gauge setup cost $1k, but does a person "need" to spend a grand in gauges alone? So, can't include my tC into that mix in it's present state.

I never mentioned your tC bro, infact, the whole time I was talking about an average build . . . you really hadnt answered any of my questions.

No you dont need a 1K setup with gauges, but you yourself said you were resourceful, and you ended up paying that much for a necessity in a turbo'd car. Same thing with the ECU, you would need an aftermarket one to run your claimed 300 HP, and those are far from cheap. And yes Im aware of the great cheap used options that you mentioned a number of times now; now how about their reliability? There are many stories of people getting fucked over when buying things on forums.

So lets put together a realistic build.
-intake
-turbo kit
-gauges
-ecu/wideband
-a/f
-turboback exhaust
-tune

on top of that, you noted
-tires
-suspension

NO WAY this can all be had for 3K.

Hence why I like the 2.0t GC. After a tune you get 280 whp with exhaust. Now that's a car that will get you far on 3K.

//offtopic: back from WTC(world trade center), what a party they got down there!
and sorry for dragging this out, I just know that a 3K turbo kit is absolute blasphemy.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Dimman

How does offset change wheel rate?

thats literally all it does. when you push you wheel in or out it changes the ratio between how much the spring compresses in relation to how much the tire moves

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by fatoni

we could go that route with any car. there are cars costing $2010 running 10s in the grm challenges. while the tc is decent, lets not act like its better than the z or wrx or ms3 or mustang...also how much does that wing help? i was thinking about one for the miata i i ever go forced induction. im curious to see the benefits to a fwd car of a giant gt wing

It ain't about what car was better. I gave an opinion on them based on how they performed.

I wouldn't trade my wing for anything. It is AS beneficial as the rubber I run.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by blur

Note the AFAIK... from reading build threads, and how much turbo conversions realistically cost.

I never mentioned your tC bro, infact, the whole time I was talking about an average build . . . you really hadnt answered any of my questions.

No you dont need a 1K setup with gauges, but you yourself said you were resourceful, and you ended up paying that much for a necessity in a turbo'd car. Same thing with the ECU, you would need an aftermarket one to run your claimed 300 HP, and those are far from cheap. And yes Im aware of the great cheap used options that you mentioned a number of times now; now how about their reliability? There are many stories of people getting fucked over when buying things on forums.

So lets put together a realistic build.
-intake
-turbo kit
-gauges
-ecu/wideband
-a/f
-turboback exhaust
-tune

on top of that, you noted
-tires
-suspension

NO WAY this can all be had for 3K.

Hence why I like the 2.0t GC. After a tune you get 280 whp with exhaust. Now that's a car that will get you far on 3K.

//offtopic: back from WTC(world trade center), what a party they got down there!
and sorry for dragging this out, I just know that a 3K turbo kit is absolute blasphemy.

Note in one thing. In US NA Impreza (GC series), when we do turbo swap, we are keeping NA ECU, you know that right? Also don't need any sub-ECU to support the turbo either. So some car don't technically don't need ECU tuning for it.

One more thing, $3k tuning and 2t GC gonna get 280WHP? Can you show me the list and the dyno?

[old greg]

Originally Posted by fatoni

im curious to see the benefits to a fwd car of a giant gt wing

Please note the splitter up front. He has plenty of downforce on the driven wheels. The "giant" rear wing keeps the center of pressure in vaguely the same place as the center of gravity so that balance doesn't change too much with speed.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by fatoni

we could go that route with any car. there are cars costing $2010 running 10s in the grm challenges. while the tc is decent, lets not act like its better than the z or wrx or ms3 or mustang...also how much does that wing help? i was thinking about one for the miata i i ever go forced induction. im curious to see the benefits to a fwd car of a giant gt wing

It wasn't about which was better, more about my opinion based on how they performed. I LOVE my wing. I would say it makes more of a difference than the Rubber I run.

Originally Posted by blur

Note the AFAIK... from reading build threads, and how much turbo conversions realistically cost.

I never mentioned your tC bro, infact, the whole time I was talking about an average build . . . you really hadnt answered any of my questions.

No you dont need a 1K setup with gauges, but you yourself said you were resourceful, and you ended up paying that much for a necessity in a turbo'd car. Same thing with the ECU, you would need an aftermarket one to run your claimed 300 HP, and those are far from cheap. And yes Im aware of the great cheap used options that you mentioned a number of times now; now how about their reliability? There are many stories of people getting fucked over when buying things on forums.

So lets put together a realistic build.
-intake
-turbo kit
-gauges
-ecu/wideband
-a/f
-turboback exhaust
-tune

on top of that, you noted
-tires
-suspension

NO WAY this can all be had for 3K.

Hence why I like the 2.0t GC. After a tune you get 280 whp with exhaust. Now that's a car that will get you far on 3K.

//offtopic: back from WTC(world trade center), what a party they got down there!
and sorry for dragging this out, I just know that a 3K turbo kit is absolute blasphemy.

Maybe you couldn't but I could, just saying. My gauges were my choice, of course I would not select them if I was constrained to only $3k. I ran an Emanage Blue for 3yrs before upgrading. All my turbo races were using the Blue. I upgraded to the Ultimate because I have different needs now. I got the Ultimate for $300 along with the Boomslang harness. Use to be my friends EMS. Boomslang harness alone are $300 new and the Ultimate is $600 new. If you want a build list complete with a price and link to it, just PM me about it.

Originally Posted by fatoni

thats literally all it does. when you push you wheel in or out it changes the ratio between how much the spring compresses in relation to how much the tire moves

I got it covered.

[blur]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Note in one thing. In US NA Impreza (GC series), when we do turbo swap, we are keeping NA ECU, you know that right? Also don't need any sub-ECU to support the turbo either. So some car don't technically don't need ECU tuning for it.

Isnt that because the japanese version comes with a turbo? Most cars dont have turbo compatible ecus.

One more thing, $3k tuning and 2t GC gonna get 280WHP? Can you show me the list and the dyno?

If I can find it . . . I'll edit when I do.

http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/31881-2...no-sheets.html <-- just go there and look for yourself..

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by fatoni

thats literally all it does. when you push you wheel in or out it changes the ratio between how much the spring compresses in relation to how much the tire moves

LOL ORLY? Wheel offset actually changes the pivot points?

Thanks for the early morning giggle.

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

..moving along. FR-S is not a direct competitor to the 370z. Not on price and not on performance.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by blur

Isnt that because the japanese version comes with a turbo? Most cars dont have turbo compatible ecus.
If I can find it . . . I'll edit when I do.

http://www.gencoupe.com/2-0t/31881-2...no-sheets.html <-- just go there and look for yourself..

Nope, JDM ECU and US ECU are totally different.

Thanks for the site. I just quickly checked up til 5 pages and I've only saw 3 GC w over 280whp. All of those had over $3k mods. $3k mods average out bout 230~255whp.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Nope, JDM ECU and US ECU are totally different.

Thanks for the site. I just quickly checked up til 5 pages and I've only saw 3 GC w over 280whp. All of those had over $3k mods. $3k mods average out bout 230~255whp.

So I guess it is fair to say you could get ~280-300 crank hp easily with $3k of mods then? if a RWD car has ~20% drivetrain loss then:

230whp= ~290crank hp
255whp= ~320crank hp

While the GC is still heavy at 3300lbs, it still gives it a 11lbs per hp ratio. Not bad. If only the car lost a bit of weight and was closer to 3000lbs. The car sure has the aftermarket potential to be great.

[blur]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Nope, JDM ECU and US ECU are totally different.

Thanks for the site. I just quickly checked up til 5 pages and I've only saw 3 GC w over 280whp. All of those had over $3k mods. $3k mods average out bout 230~255whp.

Those things are torque monsters though. I saw a dyno making 220 HP and 300 lb ft of torque.

And btw, those few are lightly modded, probably in the neighborhood of $800-$1000. Most simply had a tune, FMIC, exhaust, downpipe, injectors, blowoff valve . . . simple stuff. For 3K Im confident it could make 350 WHP on 91

[iff2mastamatt]

Plus I haven't seen many mods that make the 370z drastically faster than the stock version. The Stillen mods have made it go 0-60 in 4.5 (5.1 stock), but that's not worth the money it takes for the Z to achieve that. IMO, a FR-S worth $35,000 (with $8,000-9,000 in mods) > $35,000 Z w/ sport package.