Manual Downshifting to 1st Gear

[pituala]

Originally Posted by FRSowner

Brake pads are much cheaper and easier to change than clutches. I recommend using the brakes to slow down. It's easier on the car and much more controllable.

When will people learn this???

Save the brakes by downshifting....I think that may be the most retarded thing I've ever heard....lol

[S2kphile]

I just use the brake and change whatever gear I'm in into neutral when driving around town. F that downshifting shiii in everyday driving/conditions. Be simple as f**k.

[Turbowned]

Read with caution: these are reflections of my driving style, which I've learned over the past 7 years based on personal experience and advice from numerous manual transmission drivers. Take from it what you will.

Learn to rev-match downshift and use the engine to brake until you absolutely need to use the brakes. If you rev-match it doesn't wear the synchros as much as if you just put it in a lower gear and just let the synchros mesh the gears. It also makes deceleration much smoother. You don't have to rev-match every gear, however. Pick your battles, so to speak. For example, rev-matching from third to second when slowing for a light isn't advisable when you have to stop quickly. In a case like that you just clutch in and brake 'til you come to a stop. I've heard this car is somewhat difficult to rev-match in due to the placement of the pedals, but with practice I'm sure you can manage it. (I've only driven the AT thus far )

This car is light enough that you should be able to use your brakes very little overall compared to a heavier car with an automatic transmission. Don't listen to these guys who think you're wearing the clutch prematurely, it's nonsense.

It's also inefficient and less safe to shift into neutral when coasting because of the time delay to select a gear again should you need to suddenly accelerate. The only time I find myself in neutral is when I/m at a dead stop, waiting for a light to change or something.

[S2kphile]

http://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/bu...nsmission.html

Myth #3: Use the clutch to save your brakes. The clutch can theoretically be used as a braking device when slowing down, but this is more trouble than it's worth. First, if you're using the clutch to slow a car to "save your brakes" you better be really good with the clutch. If you're not smooth in your downshifting you'll be putting extra wear on the clutch.

Anyone want to guess which components cost more to replace — brake pads or a clutch plate? You're better off just pushing the clutch pedal in and leaving it in, and/or shifting to neutral, when slowing down in a manual-shift vehicle — especially if you aren't extremely smooth at downshifting. If you are smooth at downshifting and you feel like going through the trouble, you can constantly downshift and release the clutch as you slow down. But even doing that action smoothly won't make your brakes last appreciably longer.

Myth #5: It's normal for the car to lurch when downshifting. When you do downshift (without coming to a complete stop) it's important to "rev-match." This means raising the engine's rpm as you release the clutch to more closely match your vehicle's engine speed to the rear-wheel speed. Again, this is only important on downshifting. As you accelerate and upshift you don't have to worry about rev-matching. By giving the engine just a bit of throttle when you downshift you can make the clutch engagement smoother, which reduces clutch wear and head bobbing on downshifts.

If you get really good at rev-matching you can even try heel-and-toe downshifting, which is what racers use to get the smoothest downshifts, and the best lap times, around a road course. Heel-and-toe shifting is actually a whole other article, but in short you must apply both the brake pedal and the gas pedal simultaneously, thus slowing the car down and rev-matching the engine to rear-wheel speed — all at the same time. This can be accomplished by carefully placing your right foot on the brake pedal and the gas pedal.

But for the sake of your clutch, and the safety of your fellow drivers, please don't try heel-and-toe shifting until you've fully mastered the basics mentioned above!

[GNS]

Originally Posted by Kundiethala

Im def no expert in driving stick but have practiced the basics on my brothers chevy cruze for the past year. When ever coming to a full stop from like 45 mph, I would hold in the clutch while placing the car into 1st gear in preparation for after the stop. The clutch would be engaged the whole time i was braking and until the light turned green. Never found a problem with the cruze so it became a routine at every stoplight or stopsign.

You should be coasting in gear so that you save gas, and in the event that you need to make an emergency maneuver. Modern cars constantly inject fuel to keep the engine turning over. When your car is in gear and you're not using any throttle, the momentum of the car is enough to keep the engine turning over and the fuel injectors will turn off until the ECU senses that it is about to stall - this typically happens at around 2000 rpm or less.

The REAL reason you should be coasting in gear is for safety. It puts more wear on the clutch, that is true, but the car is in gear and you're ready to respond to any road hazards. Coasting in N will save wear on the clutch and brakes, but it puts you at greater risk.

As for the actual technique, start at 45mph and let it coast in gear. As you see the rpms drop below your powerband, downshift one gear. The exact moment that you downshift is something you'll have to learn by yourself. Repeat this until the car is just about coming to a stop and you're in 2nd gear. At this point you have 2 choices:

1. Keep the car in 1st with the clutch in, just in case you need to move quickly. For example, someone is driving up behind you really quickly and you're not sure that they'll stop before their car hits yours.
2. Keep the car in N, clutch out.

Just picked up a MT FR-S yest and in the same situation (slowing down for red light from 45) when I have the clutch all the way down, I tried to put it into 1st gear, I hear a grinding sound. Did I just learn it the wrong way on a beater car or is something wrong with my car. After I heard the grinding, I switched to only moving the gear into neutral to slow down. Sorry if this is a really dumb question. This is my first real car and dont wanna mess it up.

You learned the wrong way on a beater car, and the lockout for 1st gear at that speed is a safety feature to prevent over-revving and damage to the transmission. Putting the car in N to slow down is, as mentioned above, a bad idea.

[pituala]

Originally Posted by S2kphile

I just use the brake and change whatever gear I'm in into neutral when driving around town. F that downshifting shiii in everyday driving/conditions. Be simple as f**k.

Werd! Rev matching/downshifting on a track is very useful and will definately cut laptimes, as is keeping your foot on the gas while braking. These are proven techniques to improve times on a course.

For everyday driving on the street in normal situations.....absolutely useless (unless you find the cost of replacing clutches and brakes excessively useful).

If you want to save gas, drive calmly. If you wanna race around and beat on your car (which will DEFINATELY wear out parts faster) then downshift for stoplights and stay off the brakes.

Now one thing I want to point out, something written above about staying in gear incase you need to get on the gas for an emergency situation. This is taught for motorcycle licenses and in cars is also an effective way of staying in control. It is NOT used as a way of slowing down, rather once slowed down being in a lower gear for the purposes of accelerating.

[rwd_]

I never downshift into 1st, especially since the car seems to agree as well. Coming to a stop, the car should have no problem in 2nd gear as long as the RPMs aren't too low.

[ph0en1xtk]

Okay, so i am by no means an expert at driving stick. Ive daily driven a stick shift chevy cobalt for about 2 years, and my fr-s is my daily also, but i have to ask:

Isnt it a bit unnecessary to downshift through each gear? Maybe im understanding this wrong, but if im in 6th gear, coming off the exit ramp of a freeway towards a stop light and i know im going to have to stop up ahead eventually, youre saying to downshift to 5th, 4th, and so on until im in 2nd and coming to a complete stop? For years ive done this by putting the stick in the neutral position and just coasting along till i have a need to use my brakes. It seems like a lot of effort to downshift through all the gears. That is, unless im understanding this wrong.

Also when im just driving around town, it doesnt seem too difficult to go from neutral to 3rd or 4th when i need to accelerate again. Maybe thats not optimal, but it sure works for me.

The only thing that i feel i do incorrectly is a lot of times when im not sure if im going to need to downshift or not, ill hold the clutch pedal in as im coasting, sometimes for a short while. Im sure that this is not preferred, as you can coast perfectly fine without holding the pedal down, but its a habit im trying to break

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by pituala

When will people learn this???

Save the brakes by downshifting....I think that may be the most retarded thing I've ever heard....lol

I went 130k miles on original pads with downshifting before I sold my last car, still had 30% of my pads left, ive been to a few scca events,very very spirited driving daily, many 1/4 mile runs, ect never had a clutch, tranny, or brake issue...

[DaJo]

Originally Posted by pituala

When will people learn this???

Save the brakes by downshifting....I think that may be the most retarded thing I've ever heard....lol

Originally Posted by pituala

Werd! Rev matching/downshifting on a track is very useful and will definately cut laptimes, as is keeping your foot on the gas while braking. These are proven techniques to improve times on a course.

For everyday driving on the street in normal situations.....absolutely useless (unless you find the cost of replacing clutches and brakes excessively useful).

If you want to save gas, drive calmly. If you wanna race around and beat on your car (which will DEFINATELY wear out parts faster) then downshift for stoplights and stay off the brakes.

Now one thing I want to point out, something written above about staying in gear incase you need to get on the gas for an emergency situation. This is taught for motorcycle licenses and in cars is also an effective way of staying in control. It is NOT used as a way of slowing down, rather once slowed down being in a lower gear for the purposes of accelerating.

"Engine braking is a generally accepted practice and can help save wear on friction brakes. It's even used in some motor sports to reduce the risk of the friction brakes overheating. Additionally, most modern engines don't use any fuel while engine braking which helps reduce fuel consumption. This is known as DFCO or Deceleration Fuel Cut-Off and is used with Burn and Coast."

Long story short, you DO save gas (better fuel economy) + your brakes when using engine brake; even in road traffic.

[YaX]

Originally Posted by Kundiethala

Im def no expert in driving stick but have practiced the basics on my brothers chevy cruze for the past year. When ever coming to a full stop from like 45 mph, I would hold in the clutch while placing the car into 1st gear in preparation for after the stop. The clutch would be engaged the whole time i was braking and until the light turned green. Never found a problem with the cruze so it became a routine at every stoplight or stopsign.

Just picked up a MT FR-S yest and in the same situation (slowing down for red light from 45) when I have the clutch all the way down, I tried to put it into 1st gear, I hear a grinding sound. Did I just learn it the wrong way on a beater car or is something wrong with my car. After I heard the grinding, I switched to only moving the gear into neutral to slow down. Sorry if this is a really dumb question. This is my first real car and dont wanna mess it up.

On the bright side, one day you may look back on this post, and realize how utterly ignorant you were.

It's not a dumb question. It's simply painful to read by anyone who understands mechanically what's happening to your transmission when you drive it that way.

[Chad]

Originally Posted by civicdrivr

Two things -

Leave it in gear when slowing down. You save more gas this way and you can easily accelerate if you need to.

You shouldnt put it into first if youre going faster then ~10mph. Go into second. Hell, at 45mph, thats third gear.

Not sure how leaving it in gear would save more gas than coasting and using brakes... .

Anyways as some have suggested use your brakes, cheaper parts and that's what they're there for, plus it's a controlled braking whereas using your engine can lock your brakes up.

I usually wait until i'm almost at a stop to put it into first, you can apply gentle pressure at the lower speeds to first gear and you will feel the exact point where it will slide in with ease so you know where that spot is.

[DaJo]

Originally Posted by Chad

Not sure how leaving it in gear would save more gas than coasting and using brakes... .

Anyways as some have suggested use your brakes, cheaper parts and that's what they're there for, plus it's a controlled braking whereas using your engine can lock your brakes up.

I usually wait until i'm almost at a stop to put it into first, you can apply gentle pressure at the lower speeds to first gear and you will feel the exact point where it will slide in with ease so you know where that spot is.

Read my post above...But here's more in-dept info...

For coasting in gear, a later-model vehicle with a fuel-injected engine will realize more gains from the burn and coast technique than older carbureted engines because the ECU in most fuel-injected engines will cut fuel to the engine when the car is in gear, the throttle is closed and the engine is running faster than idle speed. This is sometimes referred to as "deceleration fuel cut off".

Older vehicles with older ECUs did not have the luxury of this feature...Hence why some people keep thinking; leaving the car in gear will continually consume fuel. That is not the case anymore for the newer vehicles. Welcome to the future.

[pituala]

Originally Posted by DaJoian

"Engine braking is a generally accepted practice and can help save wear on friction brakes. It's even used in some motor sports to reduce the risk of the friction brakes overheating. Additionally, most modern engines don't use any fuel while engine braking which helps reduce fuel consumption. This is known as DFCO or Deceleration Fuel Cut-Off and is used with Burn and Coast."

Long story short, you DO save gas (better fuel economy) + your brakes when using engine brake; even in road traffic.

You're right, in racing. Not in everyday street driving. If that were the case, automatic cars would prematurely downshift as you lifted your foot from the accelerator to help slow the car down and help "Save brakes", yet this is NOT done by ANY manufacturer of any vehicle in the world.

Let me ask this question to those who feel engine braking is necessary. How many sets of brake pads are you going through that it is SO important to "save your brakes"???

If making the brakes last longer is an issue for normal daily driving, then you must be driving down cliffs or something.

And if you are racing and brake fade is a problem, then upgraded Big Brake Kits are in order.

Using the engine/clutch for braking on the streets for normal daily driving is dumb. But this is America, and if that's how you feel is the best way for you to drive your car, then please by all means do it.

But do not tell others this is the norm and regular practice for daily driving, because it is NOT.