FR-S vs. 370z, end all be all of discussions

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by dalli

wait the 2011 mustang weighs in @ 3.8k lbs @ 300 HP?

If the FR-S comes @ 2.8k lbs @ 200 hp.. wouldn't it beat it... by a lot.. ( i guess it depends on torque?)

No.

The mustang would be 12.66 lbs of weight for every Horsepower.
The FR-S would be 14lbs/HP....but I really think 2700 is closer to realistic, so we'll say 13.5. Still, thats VERY close all things considered. To put another way...for the lbs/HP figure to be exact, the FR-S would only need 14 more HP.

All the torque would do is let the Mustang launch faster from a dead stop (on an even road with no grades), if the launch is proper and the tires can lay down the torque. When you get into the higher revs is where HP becomes important.

Torque is how fast you start, Horsepower is how fast you go. That's of course a simplistic way to see things. Other factors have to be considered, mainly gearing.

I like to use that form of equation..as the solid numbers just make it easier to think about in the head. Their P/W ratios would be:
Mustang:0.078hp/lb
FR-S: 0.074hp/lb

[Cogito8888]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

This post is so retarded it's not even funny. The genesis doesn't compare poorly to the cars you mention especially the Camaro. And then you went and added a WRX? and a mini cooper? as a closer competitor?

Please elaborate on how my post is retarded

If you think the performance of the 2.0T Genesis is comparable to the mustang and camaro at the same price point you're delusional. The 3.8 competes with those cars not the 2.0T.

Ask most people on the SCCA forums what their choice would be for a fast affordable, and competetive car, for someone who may need to use rear seats and you get two answers, the WRX, or the RX8, as far as I'm concerned that is part of the market the FR-S is getting into (granted rear seat usage will be more limited in the FR-S but the point of utility stands)

Furthermore the Mini S is almost Identical to the FR-S except for it being front wheel drive.
People who knock that car have not seen it compete.

Mini 2700lbs 180hp
FRS 2600-2800lbs (hopefully) 170-220hp (range most people think will happen)
both have small rear seat, both will get good gas mileage, and both will cost around 25K, it's retarded to think there isn't a comparison to be made here. The biggest difference between the two cars other than drivetrain will be center of gravity where the FR-S will win hands down

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

Hahaha, both car's weigh in at ~3800lbs.

I'm sorry, but muscle heads won't even be looking at the FR-S to begin with. If you want an overweight torquey whale then by all means, go buy Mr. Needstogoonaseverediet

The FR-S is DESIGNEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD, to be a completely different sports car.

I'd expect a track head like yourself would understand the different benefits of owning a nothing but power cinder block, and a quick and agile responsive sponge (I unno, both similar shapes...).

The fact they can get car's that are so much larger and so much heavier to be as cheap makes me severely question their quality and longevity.

But, it works out for the better if you ask me. It forces Toyota/Scion to seriously consider the FR-S' MSRP against those car's to win over sales. They'll HAVE to keep it low low $20k.

i bet the mustang v6 ends up faster...not hating though, id rather be in the ft if it live up to the hype

[El_STiG]

Allow me to bud in.

A few of you probably arnt aware of there being two diff versions of the GenCoupe. 2.0T and a 3.8 V6.

Stock for stock the FR-S and the genesis 2.0t will dance together very evenly. If it was the 3.8, the FR-S might stand a chance.

Here's some pros a out the genesis. With just a standard canned ECU reflash with stock parts. It produces 215 whp. Stock is 170whp. With stage 1 (tbe, FMIC,intake,tune) the genesis lands at 230whp 280wtq. Stage 2 (add injectors 550cc) 250-275whp 300+wtq plus the reflash. Stage 3 with the stock turbo being remanufactured it lands at 305whp 320wtq.

The 2.0t has a lot of aftermaket support over the v6. Stage 2 makes it hang with the 3.8. Stage 3 just eats it.

The 3.8v6 has very little support due to the ECU being horrible. The most I've seen it put down is 370whp with headers tune and a 75shot. Over they're a weak.

It's one of the things that's killing me of trading in my genesis for this FR-S. The ability to make more power with very little mods. I'm not about the power. I just remember when my car was stock and taking it to a drift practice, the car really disappointed me untill the day I got to test out the tune for it.

I think it being estimated to be 24k for a plain flat 4 turboless engine is too much. Just my $0.02.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Cogito8888

Please elaborate on how my post is retarded

If you think the performance of the 2.0T Genesis is comparable to the mustang and camaro at the same price point you're delusional. The 3.8 competes with those cars not the 2.0T.

Ask most people on the SCCA forums what their choice would be for a fast affordable, and competetive car, for someone who may need to use rear seats and you get two answers, the WRX, or the RX8, as far as I'm concerned that is part of the market the FR-S is getting into (granted rear seat usage will be more limited in the FR-S but the point of utility stands)

Furthermore the Mini S is almost Identical to the FR-S except for it being front wheel drive.
People who knock that car have not seen it compete.

Mini 2700lbs 180hp
FRS 2600-2800lbs (hopefully) 170-220hp (range most people think will happen)
both have small rear seat, both will get good gas mileage, and both will cost around 25K, it's retarded to think there isn't a comparison to be made here. The biggest difference between the two cars other than drivetrain will be center of gravity where the FR-S will win hands down

You can't compare a well done RWD car to a FWD car that was your first mistake. Then you also compared it to a AWD,3200+ lb sedan???? The Gencoupe will be getting the sonata turbo's engine by the time this drops which would throw a monkey wrench in the plans of the FR-S dominating it. The Gencoupe is basically a bigger version of the FR-S with the only biggest difference being weight and size. The other two cars you mentioned made more sense to me.

And also to the folks that think the Mustang V6 weighs 3800lbs it's actually a base curb weight of 3450 lbs which is still heavy but the only muscle coupe that weight that much is the other two.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by El_STiG

Allow me to bud in.

A few of you probably arnt aware of there being two diff versions of the GenCoupe. 2.0T and a 3.8 V6.

Stock for stock the FR-S and the genesis 2.0t will dance together very evenly. If it was the 3.8, the FR-S might stand a chance.

Here's some pros a out the genesis. With just a standard canned ECU reflash with stock parts. It produces 215 whp. Stock is 170whp. With stage 1 (tbe, FMIC,intake,tune) the genesis lands at 230whp 280wtq. Stage 2 (add injectors 550cc) 250-275whp 300+wtq plus the reflash. Stage 3 with the stock turbo being remanufactured it lands at 305whp 320wtq.

The 2.0t has a lot of aftermaket support over the v6. Stage 2 makes it hang with the 3.8. Stage 3 just eats it.

The 3.8v6 has very little support due to the ECU being horrible. The most I've seen it put down is 370whp with headers tune and a 75shot. Over they're a weak.

It's one of the things that's killing me of trading in my genesis for this FR-S. The ability to make more power with very little mods. I'm not about the power. I just remember when my car was stock and taking it to a drift practice, the car really disappointed me untill the day I got to test out the tune for it.

I think it being estimated to be 24k for a plain flat 4 turboless engine is too much. Just my $0.02.

Yo Stig, I have to disagree on the last part. The V6 would rape the FR-S as a source have said the FR-S will be in the low 7's 0-60. But the other part about it dancing evenly with the 2.0t I believe you on that until Hyundai updates the 2.0t.

Also it's good to have you here and you probably know who I am by my name.

[El_STiG]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

Yo Stig, I have to disagree on the last part. The V6 would rape the FR-S as a source have said the FR-S will be in the low 7's 0-60. But the other part about it dancing evenly with the 2.0t I believe you on that until Hyundai updates the 2.0t.

Also it's good to have you here and you probably know who I am by my name.

Haha I had a feeling it was you Sub-Gen?

Thanks for correcting me. I'm poorly educated on the 3.8. I just know that the mods are short and the tune for it is a bitch. Lol

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by El_STiG

Haha I had a feeling it was you Sub-Gen?

Thanks for correcting me. I'm poorly educated on the 3.8. I just know that the mods are short and the tune for it is a bitch. Lol

Yeah it's me. If this car had a turbo variant like a FR-S turbo then I would be worried for both versions of the GC but a N/A 2.0 liter IMO is childsplay compared to the new D/I 2.0t and D/I 3.8v6 coming from Hyundai. Only way I can see the FR-S standing a chance would be if the weight was around 2100 lbs with 200hp. I personally think the FR-S will be lumped in odd comparisons with FWD cars like the guy I was posting at was saying.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Cogito8888

Please elaborate on how my post is retarded

If you think the performance of the 2.0T Genesis is comparable to the mustang and camaro at the same price point you're delusional. The 3.8 competes with those cars not the 2.0T.

Ask most people on the SCCA forums what their choice would be for a fast affordable, and competetive car, for someone who may need to use rear seats and you get two answers, the WRX, or the RX8, as far as I'm concerned that is part of the market the FR-S is getting into (granted rear seat usage will be more limited in the FR-S but the point of utility stands)

Furthermore the Mini S is almost Identical to the FR-S except for it being front wheel drive.
People who knock that car have not seen it compete.

Mini 2700lbs 180hp
FRS 2600-2800lbs (hopefully) 170-220hp (range most people think will happen)
both have small rear seat, both will get good gas mileage, and both will cost around 25K, it's retarded to think there isn't a comparison to be made here. The biggest difference between the two cars other than drivetrain will be center of gravity where the FR-S will win hands down

The Mini Cooper S competes with the Scion tC. That's enough for me to say it's not a competitor to an FR-S sorry..

Consumers don't think of "center of gravity" when they go buy a car. And someone looking at an FR-S is NOT looking at a Mini Cooper S as a second choice. Sorry...don't see it.

[SUB-FT86]

Yeah the mini cooper goes up against sporty fwd econoboxes. And I think its one of the ugliest cars out there with a equally ugly interior. I would never consider one or any car it competes with. The FRS has no real competition when it comes to specs.

[Cogito8888]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

Yeah the mini cooper goes up against sporty fwd econoboxes. And I think its one of the ugliest cars out there with a equally ugly interior. I would never consider one or any car it competes with. The FRS has no real competition when it comes to specs.

Don't get me wrong I would never try and defend the looks of the Cooper, indeed it is a hideous thing.

The concensus seems to be one can't compare a coupe to a sedan ever, or an FWD to a RWD ever. Yet since we can all agree that this car has no direct competitor (possibly that Gen 2.0T if indeed it has the power boost you're eluding to) it will be compared to some odd balls. I've seen a lot of college girls drive Minis and I have the sad belief that this car will steal quite a bit of those sales.

SUB-FT86, I'm slightly intrigued by the updates to the genesis by Hyundai what are the projected numbers. For me the current way it stacks up is pretty poor only due to it's power. With power to compete it could easly be at the top considering its better suspension.

Currently I see that market segment as
Mustang GT>Camaro SS>Challenger R/T>Mustang V6>Camaro V6>Genesis 3.8>Genesis 2.0T

However with the right power that would easily change to
Genesis 3.8>Mustang GT>Camaro SS>Challenger R/T>Genesis 2.0T>Mustang V6>Camaro V6

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

Yeah it's me. If this car had a turbo variant like a FR-S turbo then I would be worried for both versions of the GC but a N/A 2.0 liter IMO is childsplay compared to the new D/I 2.0t and D/I 3.8v6 coming from Hyundai. Only way I can see the FR-S standing a chance would be if the weight was around 2100 lbs with 200hp. I personally think the FR-S will be lumped in odd comparisons with FWD cars like the guy I was posting at was saying.

I'm not impressed with the Gen 2.0T for what you pay for it stock. It needs a turbo upgrade to come alive. And if you are going to do that, then you need to apply that same principle to the FR-S.

The Gen 2.0T is slow because it's a pig. It runs the same 1/4 mile as a stock tC when it's a turbo 4 and RWD.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

The Gen 2.0T is slow because it's a pig. It runs the same 1/4 mile as a stock tC when it's a turbo 4 and RWD.

I thought the tC ran a 16 second 1/4 and the GC 2.0T a low 15 second quarter?

2011 tC: http://www.insideline.com/scion/tc/2...and-video.html

GC 2.0T: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...est/index.html

[Zaku]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

I thought the tC ran a 16 second 1/4 and the GC 2.0T a low 15 second quarter?

2011 tC: http://www.insideline.com/scion/tc/2...and-video.html

GC 2.0T: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...est/index.html

If it's that close it could come down to the driver.....

We need a STIG

>_>