How mad would you be?

[Saber_TRD]

Originally Posted by raz0rbladez909

It's not like having a Toyota branding on the car would suddenly make them bring every option they have on their cars out to us. We've been getting screwed for years when it comes to Japanese cars. Lets use the Yaris for example, its Japanese name is the Vitz and it comes with many options we will never see here. I.E. HID's/LED Tails/Different bumpers/different engines. Even though it has Toyota badging doesn't mean we are going to get any of the cool shit they decide to make for the cars. It's been happening for years with almost every Japanese manufacturer.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for options and having the ability to pick what you want on the car, but right now they haven't decided to give us any of the cool shit. I think it would be the same way whether it was brought out as a Scion or not.

Although you have a point about us getting screwed over with things in the past (as we are now) the Celica GT-4 as an example to add to yours, I don't think we'd be completely depraved of the options.

Looking at what other countries are getting and what we have received in the past, we'd likely see most of the options currently available in Japan. The only thing that may be left out, and I hate to admit this as I like it, is the colour keyed interior. I heard the US didn't get that for the Celica but Canada did so it's possible. Also looking at what the BRZ Limited received, Toyota would probably end up with a decent set of options.

[Allch Chcar]

The only issue I had was that the Twins don't really fit into the Scions "image." It's smaller, lighter, and more expensive than the tC yet faster. I mean it's really more of a car you'd expect to see driven by middle aged men like the Miata rather than young hipsters who want an "unique" car.

The different badging doesn't really bother me, but I'm curious why Toyota decided that there should be only one trim in the US? Seems rather short sighted to me. I'm looking at the Subaru partialy because of the extra trim.

[chulooz]

Oh you actually believe that 86 heritage marketing BS. Lol


And the whole part about it being built and engineered through subaru doesnt bother you?

[sho220]

Originally Posted by robo_robb

I don't mean to sound rude, but you must be very young. Toyota has a long history of making exciting cars. It's this history that inspired Akio Toyoda to spearhead this car's creation. Sure, in the past 10 years or so they took to a conservative bread-and-butter philosophy, but they're changing-- Toyota is now reviving their passion for sports cars with the creation of the 86.

I'm 42. And the boring, beige pieces of shit they've been cranking out far outweigh anything exciting from Toyota. You've been drinking too much of the Toyota Marketing department kool-aid..."reviving their passion" lol...did you pull that straight from one of their press releases?

[Tanuki]

Originally Posted by chulooz

Oh you actually believe that 86 heritage marketing BS. Lol


And the whole part about it being built and engineered through subaru doesnt bother you?

Do you read much?

[Justin.b]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

The only issue I had was that the Twins don't really fit into the Scions "image." It's smaller, lighter, and more expensive than the tC yet faster. I mean it's really more of a car you'd expect to see driven by middle aged men like the Miata rather than young hipsters who want an "unique" car.

In fairness, Toyota was really the only one who bought into the Scion image.

The only Scion that I see consistently driven by 'youthful' drivers is the tC. I owned an xB so I did notice them out and about, and I saw far more drivers over 35 than under.

At the outset of Scion, they were pretty adamant about the models not being refreshed, but instead replaced by new models. So far, the xA is the only one they followed through on, since they came out with a new tC and a new xB.

Even if scion buyers are 40, they will bring down the average age of Toyota buyers.

-Justin

[eriktherod]

I think it's funny that you would say "engineered" by Subaru when everyone here knows Subaru would never make a RWD NA sports car nowadays. This was Toyota's project from the start and they enlisted Subaru's engineers only AFTER they were able to make a test car and prove it had potential.

I'm fairly sure that Toyota set the constraints, Tada-san knew what he wanted to achieve with it. Subaru just had parts that could prove useful (Boxer, suspension, etc). The transmission is a Toyota-designed Aisin, not a Subby one. The Boxer, while Subaru's, uses Toyota's direct injection tech (that they were even somewhat hesitant to share).

Take the iPad, which Apple designs and engineers from scratch. Sharp and LG may make the LCDs, Samsung may make the CPU/GPU/Flash memory. Other outside companies make the aluminum housing, chipsets, and necessary components. That doesn't mean it's their product, Apple is the one who says what goes into the device and oversees it from start to finish. It's Apple's product.

That's how I feel about the 86, it's Toyota's baby. They had the vision and the engineering. Subaru co-developed it using a lot of parts that were a good fit for the platform. Not to say Subaru isn't a good partner, but it's silly for anyone to say it was their idea or their car because it has a bunch of SUBARU stamps on it. I highly doubt they designed the chassis, even if it has their mfg stamp on it.

That all being said, I personally dislike marquee brands. That's like an author writing one successful series as his real name, then using a pseudonym for a completely different series. Why? Marketing? That's dumb in my opinion. That and yes the heritage, which some people are calling BS on. I don't care if you don't buy into the AE86 heritage, this is the heritage of a lightweight fun RWD sports car. Some people say they can see it as the AE86, some people say it's the MR2, others say it's the mini LF-A. Either way, it IS a lightweight RWD sports car and I think Toyota should be proud of it as their brand, not the "cool, hip in the US brand."

TL;DR: I personally feel the car is a Toyota which the marketing team had a field day pushing it as a Scion. I bought the car because I like what it offers, I trust Toyota, and I dislike marketing nonsense. I will rebadge it to remove the latter problem. You would be surprised how many people do not know that Infiniti is Nissan, Acura is Honda, Scion/Lexus is Toyota and all the domestic ones (Mercury/Saturn/etc). I have had a few people ask me, "Oh that's a Scion.. who makes that?"

Side example: Linksys made an awesome 16-port switch (SD216) that I used for years. When Cisco bought them out, they rebranded it and added a little power "switch" on the side, it's identical otherwise. I replace any aging ones with Linksys models off eBay instead of the Cisco counterparts. Not only because they're 60-80% cheaper, but also because I dislike what Cisco has done with Linksys.

[Justin.b]

I also don't give a crap about Toyota's heritage and how it may or may not have been reflected in this car.

I don't blame Toyota for becoming Camry/Prius-centric. They have to sell what the masses want.

If there were anything about the FR-S that made me think of an AE86 when I looked at it, I probably would have bought something else. OK... I guess the clock is pretty 80's Japanese car. I let that one slide.

-Justin

[Sasquachulator]

Its a Scion = its cheap, stripped down. People complain about lack of HID's and stuff.

Its a Toyota = It'll be expensive cuz it might come with all the stuff. People complain that it costs too much and should cost 25k or whatever WITH all the bells and whistles becuase its what THEY want to pay rather than what it HAS to cost.

Its a Scion. Scion for some wierdass reason is like a plague brand that no one likes. They're afraid of their image because they drive a SCION. Most normal non-car people dont even care, they dont know its a Toyota, they dont know the FRS is even made from the factory as a Subaru. They see the car and you just tell em its a Scion FRS and its cheap and the only real competition is a Genesis coupe and they are impressed.

The FRS probably saved Scion, the IQ probably helped too but being a niche car and somewhat overpriced didnt help much.

Scion just stagnated way too long with the fat bloated North American xB that no one wanted (since i think most people wanted a NA bb), the no-one-even-cares-about-it xD, and a tC that suffered from cost cutting, somewhat weird styling and a loss of some quirkiness that was in the first gen tC (not to mention competitors like the Forte and Civic coupe pretty much relegated the tC into NOT a first choice)

[raz0rbladez909]

Originally Posted by sho220

I'm 42. And the boring, beige pieces of shit they've been cranking out far outweigh anything exciting from Toyota. You've been drinking too much of the Toyota Marketing department kool-aid..."reviving their passion" lol...did you pull that straight from one of their press releases?

I totally agree. What I think happened was that Toyota got tired of reading about how boring and mundane their cars were and it became almost a necessity for them to create something sporty to keep interest in their company.

[Justin.b]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Scion just stagnated way too long with the fat bloated North American xB that no one wanted (since i think most people wanted a NA bb), the no-one-even-cares-about-it xD, and a tC that suffered from cost cutting, somewhat weird styling and a loss of some quirkiness that was in the first gen tC (not to mention competitors like the Forte and Civic coupe pretty much relegated the tC into NOT a first choice)

Count me among those that didn't like the bloated xB. I guess I'm glad they didn't come out with a good xB, because I would probably still be driving it instead of the FR-S.

They completely botched their launch of the xD. They had a VERY major marketing campaign for the car. Unfortunately, the campaign ran months before you could buy an xD. Because of their pure pricing, dealers couldn't discount the slow-moving xA's to clear them out. They also couldn't bring in the xD's until the xA's were gone. By the time xD's were available, the marketing was long forgotten.

-Justin

[eriktherod]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Its a Scion = its cheap, stripped down. People complain about lack of HID's and stuff.

Its a Toyota = It'll be expensive cuz it might come with all the stuff. People complain that it costs too much and should cost 25k or whatever WITH all the bells and whistles becuase its what THEY want to pay rather than what it HAS to cost.

Its a Scion. Scion for some wierdass reason is like a plague brand that no one likes. They're afraid of their image because they drive a SCION. Most normal non-car people dont even care, they dont know its a Toyota, they dont know the FRS is even made from the factory as a Subaru. They see the car and you just tell em its a Scion FRS and its cheap and the only real competition is a Genesis coupe and they are impressed.

The FRS probably saved Scion, the IQ probably helped too but being a niche car and somewhat overpriced didnt help much.

Scion just stagnated way too long with the fat bloated North American xB that no one wanted (since i think most people wanted a NA bb), the no-one-even-cares-about-it xD, and a tC that suffered from cost cutting, somewhat weird styling and a loss of some quirkiness that was in the first gen tC (not to mention competitors like the Forte and Civic coupe pretty much relegated the tC into NOT a first choice)

I agree with you somewhat. I think that the Scion brand isn't necessarily a "stripped down" brand as much as an "entertainment/comfort first, performance second" brand. If you look at the iQ and xB, it's definitely a "cool" car that you can cruise around in while listening to your iPod. Think Kia Soul, it's a decent looking car (to some) but has a lot of entertainment and "cool" value to the younger generations. (I'm 25 btw, so I suppose I'm in their target demographic)

The problem I have is the FR-S is NOT about entertainment first, it's the opposite. Performance and if we have room in the budget, then entertainment and extras. Anyone that has sat in one knows comfort is not a problem, the seats are quite nice. However, the stock stereo and sound system is lacking and there is very little (if any) sound dampening. If you drive through a rain storm it sounds like you're under a tin roof (which you practically are).

But for the performance aspect, it's great. It's a wonderful chassis, has ample stock power with tons of room for improvement. It's got nice breaks, perfect throttle response, and a really nice tranny. This is very unlike the tC in almost every regard (lol @ TRD s/c on them).

However, since the car is a fine looker, it works for Scion. They wanted something even more aggressive to push in their brand and their marketing team was able to secure it. I feel like this is the car that tC owners salivate over (which seems to be true given the real-world encounters I've experienced).

While I understand that young kids will ALWAYS like cool cars, no matter which brand, I also dislike the way they are marketing this car. Some would say it doesn't fit in Toyota's rather bland line-up, and I may be able to agree there. However, I still feel like it doesn't fit in Scion's lineup any better. If anything, it looks more like a next-gen MR2 than a "suped up tC".

I just dislike the uneducated groups of people (typically teenagers) that are all about "fast and the furious", "NOS", "tokyo drifting" and all that without any understanding of how cars actually work and drive. I'm willing to bet you'd have a lot less of that following this car as a Toyota than a Scion. That's coming from somebody that used to drive a Civic.

[Shagaliscious]

Personally, I think the Scion badge is cooler looking then the Toyota badge.

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by robo_robb

I don't mean to sound rude, but you must be very young. Toyota has a long history of making exciting cars. It's this history that inspired Akio Toyoda to spearhead this car's creation. Sure, in the past 10 years or so they took to a conservative bread-and-butter philosophy, but they're changing-- Toyota is now reviving their passion for sports cars with the creation of the 86.

I believe he is referring to the PRESENT Toyota.

20 years ago I had a full luscious head of hair!

I don't mind that they used Scion vs Toyota if it allows more people to get the vehicle. In my mind, the FR-S will have an image not dissimilar to the Mustangs, transcending class boundaries. For exclusivity, we have BMW, MB, Lexus, Infinity and Acura

I would like to see a reasonable cost availability of options like HID's, upgraded speakers, leather/alcantra, the upgraded HVAC. However with or without these features the car looks amazing and is a blast to drive.

Also, I believe that Scion in the US was in the need of a shot in the arm to arouse public interest. Not sure about Canada as Scion is only in it's second model year here. People are walking into the Toyota/Scion showroom that otherwise might never go there. That is a good thing.

If I had stopped to think about it earlier I probably would have ordered the BRZ so I could have gotten all the niceties. However, I still get plenty of bang for my lower amount of bucks.

That's the end of my rambling.