New Flowmaster Cat back system

[Pabloc]

The car in reply #9 is mine. Flowmaster has an R&D center in N. Idaho near me. They called and wanted to put a copy of the system they developed on a local FR-S on a BRZ. This is a pre-production system, but should be what they will mass produce. Seems well made - nice welds, bends, tips. Uses 80 series muffler.

They gave me the system in return for test fitting, photos, and input/impressions. Also gave me OE system to keep. Hard to turn down. Nice people, too. Sound is deep, mellow w/ some crackle and burble. Inside, no drone at idle, freeway or elsewhere detected. Is louder than stock inside, but not 'loud' in an offensive way. No flatulent sounds, thank god.

Before/after dyno showed about 5 hp increase and like torque gain. Probably weighs same as stock.
May not be ultimate system, but seems a well made alternative.

[jm1681]

Any chance of a few video clips?

[ryude]

You can't reinvent bends, but you can use specific alloys and metal thickness to significantly alter the sound and durability. Mufflers, resonators, and catalytic converters also change the tone and pitch of the sound as well as the amount of power it can make.

[jm1681]

Originally Posted by ryude

...Mufflers, resonators, and catalytic converters also change the tone and pitch of the sound as well as the amount of power it can make.

That's completely true, but if you pick parts with the same internal diameter, there isn't much left to the equation that's going to make a notable, and substantial difference.

I think I can sum up my beliefs on this subject simply...

In the very first post of this thread, the estimated price for the Flowmaster setup was $500, right? That being the case, once dynos for the system are available, I would challenge anyone to find another exhaust for these cars, that shows a constant (And REPEATABLE) difference in horsepower, that is proportionate to the additional cost.

[cruzinbill]

Originally Posted by ABQautoxer

They would have to convince me it's better than this:

http://shop.namelessperformance.com/...-w-5-mufflers/

the nameless is only an axleback so I would already assume it is better in that aspect. not to mention if its priced the same you would get a full catback for what they ask for an axleback.

[Shizuma]

That prices sounds way more reasonable than what I've been seeing so far, honestly every other exhaust system for the 86 is grossly overpriced, $1000+ for a cat back exhaust system on a short 4 cyl car is outrageous, I only payed about $600ish for the Magnuflow exhaust on my Magnum which is a long car so more tubing is required, and on top of that it was a V8 with a true full dual exhaust, so double the amount of tubing needed. for $1000 or maybe a little more on the Magnum I could have done a full exhaust with headers and a high flow cat, hopefully in the new few months as more exhausts come out this over-inflated prices will come down.

[Dimman]

What people may not realize is that not all 'stainless steel' is equal.

The Flowmaster systems on the domestics use 409 stainless steel. This is not as durable as 304 stainless steel. It is also a less expensive material. 409 is what is already on the stock car.

300-series (304, 316L, 321) have much better corrosion resistance than 400-series.

[bakerr6]

Originally Posted by Shizuma

That prices sounds way more reasonable than what I've been seeing so far, honestly every other exhaust system for the 86 is grossly overpriced, $1000+ for a cat back exhaust system on a short 4 cyl car is outrageous, I only payed about $600ish for the Magnuflow exhaust on my Magnum which is a long car so more tubing is required, and on top of that it was a V8 with a true full dual exhaust, so double the amount of tubing needed. for $1000 or maybe a little more on the Magnum I could have done a full exhaust with headers and a high flow cat, hopefully in the new few months as more exhausts come out this over-inflated prices will come down.

Supply and demand my friend. I've owned many new cars that have had inflated MSRPs when the products are first developed, and suddenly, the MSRP will shrink, sometimes by as musch as 25%. Even after MSRP shrinks, you'll notice the sales still go on. If you have patience, definately wait, as some of the prices will start falling.

[mike2100]

Originally Posted by Dimman

409 is what is already on the stock car.

Then why is 409 not good enough? How many decades does it take for stock exhaust piping to corrode on a Japanese-built car?

[jm1681]

Originally Posted by Dimman

...300-series (304, 316L, 321) have much better corrosion resistance than 400-series.

Soooo....

If it lasts maybe 5 years instead of 10, but the system itself cost less than half as much... who cares?

[zoomzoomers]

I can't say that I've ever had a Flowmaster system on my car, but even from the early 80's they've been known for their work with domestic cars. In that category they have a solid reputation from what my buddies who are into domestic cars. They've also have been assoicated with very loud, think glass pack, systems on those domestic cars. That's not to say that JDM systems aren't loud, but that's just the reputation they've had.

Originally Posted by NYC BRZ

I had Flowmaster Super 44 mufflers on my G8 and they droned like CRAZY but sounded incredible. Hopefully these are drone free.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by mike2100

Then why is 409 not good enough? How many decades does it take for stock exhaust piping to corrode on a Japanese-built car?

It will depend on your application. The stainless point was brought up because people were talking about pricing and how this Flowmaster system is so much cheaper. Part of the reason is they use cheaper materials.

Originally Posted by jm1681

Soooo....

If it lasts maybe 5 years instead of 10, but the system itself cost less than half as much... who cares?

Then get an aluminized mild steel system that lasts 3 years for 1/2 the price of the 409 system.

[mike2100]

Originally Posted by Dimman

It will depend on your application. The stainless point was brought up because people were talking about pricing and how this Flowmaster system is so much cheaper. Part of the reason is they use cheaper materials.

Yep got that, lower quality is cheaper. My question still stands though and it's one I hope an expert will jump in and answer. 304 seems to be a bragging point and yeah I like high quality that will last seemingly forever. But the thought just jumped into my head that stock exhaust metal seems to be "good enough." Maybe there's something I'm missing.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by mike2100

Yep got that, lower quality is cheaper. My question still stands though and it's one I hope an expert will jump in and answer. 304 seems to be a bragging point and yeah I like high quality that will last seemingly forever. But the thought just jumped into my head that stock exhaust metal seems to be "good enough." Maybe there's something I'm missing.

The thing is some people want more than 'good enough'. Some don't. And there never seems to be a sensible price relationship.

For performance, there are small differences for large price increases. Can get away with thinner wall, heat transfer is less. To some that is acceptable. Look at titanium's ZOMG factor.

But the same thing applies to cars. An FR-S is a good enough but is a Gallardo 10x better for 10x the cost?

If it sounds good, lasts as long as YOU want it to, and performs good enough there is no problem for you.

But to say it's a better value based solely on price is incomplete especially considering it is made from inferior material.

By the way 304 is nothing special it's the most common 300 series stainless. 321 is the fancy stuff. But the benefits don't come into play unless we are dealing with high temp and high vibration situations.