Why I’m Getting a BRZ - Page 2 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

tiger1964 · 07-21-2023, 02:51 PM

Yeah, I can see a little resemblance to the old 240Z. Then again, I used to look down at the Z, possibly the worst autocross car we had seen (many of us drove Datsun 510's and even 1200's and did far better). It seemed bloated -- but now, a "performance" car that weighed that little would be appealing.

Flarpswitch · 08-23-2023, 04:55 PM

In the early 1970s I worked at a new car dealership. I was hired primarily to work on all things British from Mini to an occasional Rolls Royce. However, the other brand at our location was Datsun. My favorites were the 1600, 2000 and the 240Z. I got to compare a wide variety of sporty cars and with the introduction of the 240Z, it was obvious that the Brits were going to be left in the dust when it comes to cars that were affordable by mere mortals. My thing at the time was Mini Coopers and I had quite a following of people who brought their cars to me as the Mini scared the regular line mechanics to death by the all-in-one front end. Focusing on the 240Z of the time and the BRZ/86 of today, compare the cost of the car adjusted for inflation and think about what your choices were then and now. I would say the 240Z and the BRZ/86 are in the same place. That being said, the new car is lightyears ahead in what you get for your money. I drove a Lamborghini Miura about 50 years ago and that car compared to my BRZ today; my BRZ would beat the Lambo at speeds up to about 90 MPH... beyond that it is a different story. But, on the street, the BRZ is great fun for the money.

WNDSRFR · 08-23-2023, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiger1964

Yeah, I can see a little resemblance to the old 240Z. Then again, I used to look down at the Z, possibly the worst autocross car we had seen (many of us drove Datsun 510's and even 1200's and did far better). It seemed bloated -- but now, a "performance" car that weighed that little would be appealing.

We're talking about the 240Z here right? Not the 260 or 280 or 300 or whatever. The original 240Z was so far ahead of it's time, the ultimate cheap sports car. Then Datsun decided to "improve" it. They made it more acceptable to the mainstream market. They called it the 260Z. New and improved, more mainstream. It had all kinds of improvements like power this power that. So it became a heavy pig that now competes with the Celica of the day.
So I hope the Z you used to look down on was not the OG.

And I sure hope Toyota doesn't go down the same road with the 86 that Datsun took with the 240Z.

Flarpswitch · 08-23-2023, 09:51 PM

Emission control equipment and tuning adversely affected just about every car introduced in the early 70s. Each subsequent iteration of the original model became a less capable version. In 1973, I bought a Honda Civic. It illustrated how archaic my Mini Cooper was. My Civic got me through the oil embargo. People were offering me hundreds of dollars more for it than I paid right on line at the gas pumps. In the 70s I felt that cars pretty much lost any soul and I shifted my attention to motorcycles. In 1977, I bought a Honda Civic (CVCC) wagon for when the weather got bad. In the intervening years, it was the widespread use of electronic fuel injection that turned things around. In 1989 when I bought a new Mazda MPV, I spotted the MX5 Miata. I had to have that car. I could not fit comfortably and over the years Mazda never added the necessary inches in the right places. I went to see the 2014 Forester at a car show in 2013. I saw the Subaru BRZ and tried it on for size. It fit like a glove. It was the first time in forty years I even thought about a sports car with a long line of motorcycles and boats filling the space. I remember how it was when the 240Z made the scene and how customers felt about the car at the time. There were a few mods that we would do in the shop after the sale to tighten up the handling and improve the drivability. There was the one odd duck automatic transmission 240Z that went through our shop. The young guy with a family wanted the car badly and the automatic was a concession to get 'spousal approval'. The car came from the factory with the overhead cam installed with late valve timing that had everyone in the shop scratching their heads. Once that was sorted out, it was at least a respectable ride. The owner loved that car more than life itself. Maybe that was an overstatement, but I recall the vibe at the time surrounding the car and for me it is reminiscent of the BRZ/86. While the Subaru-Toyota collaboration on this car worked out OK, I cannot understand the new iteration of the Supra. I went to see the Supra when it finally showed up at the dealer and it did not feel right. I spotted an 86 at the other end of the showroom. It was a Hakone Special. If I did not already have a 2017 BRZ, I would have raided my bank account and driven it home on the spot. This insane push to battery only cars reminds me of how the life was sucked out of cars in the 70s. Enjoy your ride now while it lasts. A lot of you may not know about the 85 MPH speedometer and the 55 MPH National Speed Limit. Pretty demoralizing. Yeah and the government rocket scientists eaked out only 2/10th to less than 1% in overall fuel consumption reduction. In 1974 many states had odd/even days for when you could visit the gas station based on your license plate number. Soon to come is odd/even days for when you can charge your EV because the grid is deficient. Again, enjoy your ICE BRZ/86 now while you can.

Mike Roadway · 08-24-2023, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruturaj001

To current mustang, yes.

I glanced over article comparing to mustang from 1980s I think and it was exact dimensions, weight, made same power (but with V8).

I just so happen to know the guy who wrote that article

…that said, the fox body Mustangs aren’t a far cry at all.

OP, I grew up in Z cars (my Mom had a few) and I owned a few (3 Z31 chassis 300Zs) myself — I totally agree with you on the 240Z similarities. The BRZ has the classic formula, and best of all has the fun and feelsome driving experience that most of the expensive sportscars today lack….240Z in a nutshell.

Enjoy the new ride, and great choice!!

ruturaj001 · 08-24-2023, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Roadway

I just so happen to know the guy who wrote that article

…that said, the fox body Mustangs aren’t a far cry at all.

Where was it, I went half crazy trying to find it again. It was very interesting perspective.

Mike Roadway · 08-25-2023, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruturaj001

Where was it, I went half crazy trying to find it again. It was very interesting perspective.

Ask and you shall receive:

https://konkrroads.com/f/a-crazy-com...stang-lx-coupe

tiger1964 · 08-25-2023, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

We're talking about the 240Z here right? Not the 260 or 280 or 300 or whatever. The original 240Z was so far ahead of it's time

Well, I'm talking about the mid 1970's, so 240Z and likely some 260Z. A good car, but I never saw one do well at autocross. YMMV. Then again, there was a local club for owners who universally festooned their cars with all kinds of aesthetic c**p which added weight but not performance. Perhaps fiberglass front fenders and moving the battery to the trunk would have gotten some weight off the nose.

LRNAD90 · 08-25-2023, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiger1964

Well, I'm talking about the mid 1970's, so 240Z and likely some 260Z. A good car, but I never saw one do well at autocross. YMMV. Then again, there was a local club for owners who universally festooned their cars with all kinds of aesthetic c**p which added weight but not performance. Perhaps fiberglass front fenders and moving the battery to the trunk would have gotten some weight off the nose.

Mid seventies would have been 260Z (single model year in 1974) and 280Z ('75-'78). Each year getting progressively heavier with increasing safety regulations, and displacement increasing to combat increasing emissions regulations..

Original 240Z ('70-'73), but even these had changes year-to-year. Even so, they weighed in around 2,300-2,400 lbs with a 51f/49r weight distribution, if I recall correctly..

1979 marked the switch to a heavier (2,800-2900 lbs) GT car (known as the S130 or ZX) with power everything, more luxury appointments, and a crappy trailing arm rear suspension design, but it was the best selling MY for the Z..

WNDSRFR · 08-25-2023, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiger1964

Well, I'm talking about the mid 1970's, so 240Z and likely some 260Z. A good car, but I never saw one do well at autocross. YMMV. Then again, there was a local club for owners who universally festooned their cars with all kinds of aesthetic c**p which added weight but not performance. Perhaps fiberglass front fenders and moving the battery to the trunk would have gotten some weight off the nose.

The first autocross I ever saw was in San Diego at the sports arena. Many really nice cars in different classes.

The overall winner was .............

240Z

fredzy · 08-28-2023, 11:13 AM

My mom had two 240Zs back in the day. When I got my 350Z back in 06 and she took it for a spin, she was like "this is cool! But it doesn't really remind me of my Z." If she were around to see the 86 she'd probably agree that it's a worthy successor.

You can't compare winding out that smooth-guy inline 6 to this angry gremlin boxer, but it's still a blast. You won't be disappointed.

07-21-2023, 02:51 PM	#15
tiger1964 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2021 Drives: 2023 BRZ Location: Maryland Posts: 136 Thanks: 14 Thanked 78 Times in 43 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Yeah, I can see a little resemblance to the old 240Z. Then again, I used to look down at the Z, possibly the worst autocross car we had seen (many of us drove Datsun 510's and even 1200's and did far better). It seemed bloated -- but now, a "performance" car that weighed that little would be appealing. __________________ 1964 Sunbeam Tiger, 2015 Porsche Boxster, 2023 Subaru BRZ

08-23-2023, 04:55 PM	#16
Flarpswitch Senior Member Join Date: May 2018 Drives: 2022 BRZ Ltd, 2019 Ascent Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 239 Thanks: 159 Thanked 166 Times in 95 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	In the early 1970s I worked at a new car dealership. I was hired primarily to work on all things British from Mini to an occasional Rolls Royce. However, the other brand at our location was Datsun. My favorites were the 1600, 2000 and the 240Z. I got to compare a wide variety of sporty cars and with the introduction of the 240Z, it was obvious that the Brits were going to be left in the dust when it comes to cars that were affordable by mere mortals. My thing at the time was Mini Coopers and I had quite a following of people who brought their cars to me as the Mini scared the regular line mechanics to death by the all-in-one front end. Focusing on the 240Z of the time and the BRZ/86 of today, compare the cost of the car adjusted for inflation and think about what your choices were then and now. I would say the 240Z and the BRZ/86 are in the same place. That being said, the new car is lightyears ahead in what you get for your money. I drove a Lamborghini Miura about 50 years ago and that car compared to my BRZ today; my BRZ would beat the Lambo at speeds up to about 90 MPH... beyond that it is a different story. But, on the street, the BRZ is great fun for the money. __________________ The ants are our friends, they’re blowing in the wind, that ants are blowing in the wind.

08-23-2023, 09:51 PM	#18
Flarpswitch Senior Member Join Date: May 2018 Drives: 2022 BRZ Ltd, 2019 Ascent Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 239 Thanks: 159 Thanked 166 Times in 95 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Emission control equipment and tuning adversely affected just about every car introduced in the early 70s. Each subsequent iteration of the original model became a less capable version. In 1973, I bought a Honda Civic. It illustrated how archaic my Mini Cooper was. My Civic got me through the oil embargo. People were offering me hundreds of dollars more for it than I paid right on line at the gas pumps. In the 70s I felt that cars pretty much lost any soul and I shifted my attention to motorcycles. In 1977, I bought a Honda Civic (CVCC) wagon for when the weather got bad. In the intervening years, it was the widespread use of electronic fuel injection that turned things around. In 1989 when I bought a new Mazda MPV, I spotted the MX5 Miata. I had to have that car. I could not fit comfortably and over the years Mazda never added the necessary inches in the right places. I went to see the 2014 Forester at a car show in 2013. I saw the Subaru BRZ and tried it on for size. It fit like a glove. It was the first time in forty years I even thought about a sports car with a long line of motorcycles and boats filling the space. I remember how it was when the 240Z made the scene and how customers felt about the car at the time. There were a few mods that we would do in the shop after the sale to tighten up the handling and improve the drivability. There was the one odd duck automatic transmission 240Z that went through our shop. The young guy with a family wanted the car badly and the automatic was a concession to get 'spousal approval'. The car came from the factory with the overhead cam installed with late valve timing that had everyone in the shop scratching their heads. Once that was sorted out, it was at least a respectable ride. The owner loved that car more than life itself. Maybe that was an overstatement, but I recall the vibe at the time surrounding the car and for me it is reminiscent of the BRZ/86. While the Subaru-Toyota collaboration on this car worked out OK, I cannot understand the new iteration of the Supra. I went to see the Supra when it finally showed up at the dealer and it did not feel right. I spotted an 86 at the other end of the showroom. It was a Hakone Special. If I did not already have a 2017 BRZ, I would have raided my bank account and driven it home on the spot. This insane push to battery only cars reminds me of how the life was sucked out of cars in the 70s. Enjoy your ride now while it lasts. A lot of you may not know about the 85 MPH speedometer and the 55 MPH National Speed Limit. Pretty demoralizing. Yeah and the government rocket scientists eaked out only 2/10th to less than 1% in overall fuel consumption reduction. In 1974 many states had odd/even days for when you could visit the gas station based on your license plate number. Soon to come is odd/even days for when you can charge your EV because the grid is deficient. Again, enjoy your ICE BRZ/86 now while you can. __________________ The ants are our friends, they’re blowing in the wind, that ants are blowing in the wind.

08-28-2023, 11:13 AM	#25
fredzy Mebmer Join Date: Nov 2021 Drives: Sienna, GR86, FL5 Location: PA Posts: 624 Thanks: 395 Thanked 461 Times in 286 Posts Mentioned: 10 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	My mom had two 240Zs back in the day. When I got my 350Z back in 06 and she took it for a spin, she was like "this is cool! But it doesn't really remind me of my Z." If she were around to see the 86 she'd probably agree that it's a worthy successor. You can't compare winding out that smooth-guy inline 6 to this angry gremlin boxer, but it's still a blast. You won't be disappointed.

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