How to use the OEM amp Wiring

[soundman98]

if you're already changing speakers, it'd likely be better to just plan to upgrade the wiring from the beginning. i'd also go with a bigger amp.

but i don't get along with any of the oem audio gear.

[philly_tee]

Yeah, I feel you.

I already feel like I've gone about this the wrong way LOL

Originally Posted by soundman98

if you're already changing speakers, it'd likely be better to just plan to upgrade the wiring from the beginning. i'd also go with a bigger amp.

but i don't get along with any of the oem audio gear.

[Vangfrs]

So I read this whole forum but idk anything about speakers and amps, so i was hoping you experts can help me. My plan is to see if I can somehow bridge or connect door woofers and 11" jbl stadium basshub to my amp (powerbass xtreme xa900d) and if I can what is the best way to do it? Would I still need to bypass stock amp? Any help is appreciated and if any questions do ask and I'll try to answer.

Original setup:
HU-pioneer avhx5700bhs w/ wire kit Rca+remote+power wire from battery to xa900d bumping 2 10s. Recently blew the subs, did not notice that doors wasnt even working all this time until I blew the 10s.
Amp-

[FR-S2GT86]

Originally Posted by Vangfrs

So I read this whole forum but idk anything about speakers and amps, so i was hoping you experts can help me. My plan is to see if I can somehow bridge or connect door woofers and 11" jbl stadium basshub to my amp (powerbass xtreme xa900d) and if I can what is the best way to do it? Would I still need to bypass stock amp? Any help is appreciated and if any questions do ask and I'll try to answer.

Original setup:
HU-pioneer avhx5700bhs w/ wire kit Rca+remote+power wire from battery to xa900d bumping 2 10s. Recently blew the subs, did not notice that doors wasnt even working all this time until I blew the 10s.

We'll need a bit more information to help you out:

1) I looked online to try and find some specifications for your PowerBass amp but couldn't find anything after a quick search. Is it a stereo or a mono amp?

2) Is the amp stable down to 1 Ohm?

3) What is the ohm load of your JBL Stadium basshub?

Suggestions:

A) Don't even bother with integrating the stock door speaker amplifier with the aftermarket head unit that you've already got installed. It will only complicate matters at this point because it has no gain control and is meant to amplify a speaker-level signal only.

B) The OEM door speakers are 2-Ohm so you should be able to use your PowerBass amp on those, but the possibility of blowing them is greater just by looking at the fuses on the side of the amp. You'll have to back off the gain significantly, because the OEM door speakers are not capable of handling much more than 60 watts or so. You'll end up blowing the suspensions on them if you're not careful, and then you still won't get all of the power out of that amp. Depending on your amp specs, and the JBL sub Ohm rating, you may be able to connect it to the amp in a bridged configuration along with the door speakers.

C) The door speaker wiring is easily accessed at the harness of the OEM amplifier and we can help guide you in connecting your PowerBass amp to them.

Let us know.

[Vangfrs]

Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86

We'll need a bit more information to help you out:

1) I looked online to try and find some specifications for your PowerBass amp but couldn't find anything after a quick search. Is it a stereo or a mono amp?

2) Is the amp stable down to 1 Ohm?

3) What is the ohm load of your JBL Stadium basshub?

Suggestions:

A) Don't even bother with integrating the stock door speaker amplifier with the aftermarket head unit that you've already got installed. It will only complicate matters at this point because it has no gain control and is meant to amplify a speaker-level signal only.

B) The OEM door speakers are 2-Ohm so you should be able to use your PowerBass amp on those, but the possibility of blowing them is greater just by looking at the fuses on the side of the amp. You'll have to back off the gain significantly, because the OEM door speakers are not capable of handling much more than 60 watts or so. You'll end up blowing the suspensions on them if you're not careful, and then you still won't get all of the power out of that amp. Depending on your amp specs, and the JBL sub Ohm rating, you may be able to connect it to the amp in a bridged configuration along with the door speakers.

C) The door speaker wiring is easily accessed at the harness of the OEM amplifier and we can help guide you in connecting your PowerBass amp to them.

Let us know.

So yea I wasn't planning to integrate stock amp because from reading ik its ass. If i bridge the door woofers with jbl woofer the chances of blowing door is less? I just noticed that my amp has 2 - and 2 + channels inputs(I think that's what they're called) so I won't have to twine the door and jbl wires together and instead the amp does it according to Crutchfield video. Here is some more info on jbl stadium hub and amp idky pics didn't show on og post. Thanks for the reply and helping.

Jbl Woofer 11"
Frequency Response 20-150 Hz
Power Range (Watts RMS) 600
Maximum Wattage 1200
Sensitivity 90 dB
Impedance 2 ohms or 8 ohms

[FR-S2GT86]

Originally Posted by Vangfrs

So yea I wasn't planning to integrate stock amp because from reading ik its ass. If i bridge the door woofers with jbl woofer the chances of blowing door is less? I just noticed that my amp has 2 - and 2 + channels inputs(I think that's what they're called) so I won't have to twine the door and jbl wires together and instead the amp does it according to Crutchfield video. Here is some more info on jbl stadium hub and amp idky pics didn't show on og post. Thanks for the reply and helping.

Jbl Woofer 11"
Frequency Response 20-150 Hz
Power Range (Watts RMS) 600
Maximum Wattage 1200
Sensitivity 90 dB
Impedance 2 ohms or 8 ohms

Technically, you COULD use your PowerBass amplifier to power your OEM door speakers, and you'll get a good clean, powerful output signal but again, you'll have to turn the gain way down so that you don't blow the suspensions or burn the voice coils out, AND they will be operating in mono mode only instead of stereo, which isn't really bad in this situation due to the fact that those door speakers are basically designed to play lower frequencies anyway and those lower frequencies don't really come into play in stereo separation. The higher frequencies that your dash speakers are reproducing are mostly responsible for the stereo separation you are hearing.

If you look at the frequency response of the OEM amplifier, you'll see what I mean. If you search some of my older posts, I mapped the frequency response of that amp out of curiosity. Remember that the door speakers are 2-ohm and wiring them both to your amp in a parallel configuration presents a 1-ohm load to it, and according to the specs, that's potentially 900 watts divided by the two speakers. Just warning you that your PowerBass amp is seriously overpowered in this situation, so be careful if you do this.

Your amp would be a great match for your JBL sub however.

Might I suggest running another set of RCA cables and adding a smaller, two-channel stereo amplifier for your door speakers rated at around 100 watts into 2-ohms. You should be safe with this configuration and amps like this are extremely inexpensive nowadays. Save your big amp for your JBL subwoofer.

[Vangfrs]

Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86

Technically, you COULD use your PowerBass amplifier to power your OEM door speakers, and you'll get a good clean, powerful output signal but again, you'll have to turn the gain way down so that you don't blow the suspensions or burn the voice coils out, AND they will be operating in mono mode only instead of stereo, which isn't really bad in this situation due to the fact that those door speakers are basically designed to play lower frequencies anyway and those lower frequencies don't really come into play in stereo separation. The higher frequencies that your dash speakers are reproducing are mostly responsible for the stereo separation you are hearing.

If you look at the frequency response of the OEM amplifier, you'll see what I mean. If you search some of my older posts, I mapped the frequency response of that amp out of curiosity. Remember that the door speakers are 2-ohm and wiring them both to your amp in a parallel configuration presents a 1-ohm load to it, and according to the specs, that's potentially 900 watts divided by the two speakers. Just warning you that your PowerBass amp is seriously overpowered in this situation, so be careful if you do this.

Your amp would be a great match for your JBL sub however.

Might I suggest running another set of RCA cables and adding a smaller, two-channel stereo amplifier for your door speakers rated at around 100 watts into 2-ohms. You should be safe with this configuration and amps like this are extremely inexpensive nowadays. Save your big amp for your JBL subwoofer.

So if i parallel bridge the door subs to the amp thats going to make it go from 900watt to 450watt, which means it wont be able to power the jbl since its around 600watts?
Aslo if I lower my gain that means I wont be pushing the jbl to its full potential? I dont want to blow the doors but if they're not being used then to me it's as if they already blew. If they did, it'll just give me a reason to change them to something better lol. You said the amp is overpowered, tho I dont care about the doors, would it blow the jbl?

[FR-S2GT86]

Originally Posted by Vangfrs

So if i parallel bridge the door subs to the amp thats going to make it go from 900watt to 450watt, which means it wont be able to power the jbl since its around 600watts?

First, let me explain a bit further. Since you have a mono amplifier, there's no bridging involved. Bridging is a term used in multi-channel amplifiers to "bridge" two channels into one to increase the output power available to a speaker. Since your amp is mono, that means it's a single-channel amp. Even though there are two speaker outputs, the positives and the negatives of those two speaker outputs are electrically and respectively the same points. For example, if you measure the resistance of the left channel's, positive lead to the right channel's positive lead, you'll see that there is 0 ohms of resistance. Likewise, you will see the same results measuring the negative leads of both outputs. They simply give you two speaker outputs for convenience and ease of wiring up multiple speakers. I noticed your amp is "strappable". That means if you had a second amp of the same model, you could strap the two amps together to further increase the power output available to your speaker(s). By the way, you'll want to set that DAISY CHAIN switch to MASTER while you're using just that one amp, the SLAVE setting is for use when you're strapping two amps together. Refer to your owner's manual for a further explanation of this feature.

According to the specifications of your amp, if you connect one 2-ohm door speaker to either speaker output, you have the potential of 600 watts available to that one speaker. Connect another 2-ohm door speaker to the other output, which will now present a 1-ohm load to this mono amplifier channel and you have the potential of 900 watts total, that's 450 watts per speaker. Why isn't the output doubling now as you add a second speaker? It's because you are now at or approaching the full load limit of the amp and the maximum unclipped operating voltage output on that mono channel is reducing as the load increases towards 1-ohm. You'll notice at a 4-ohm load, your available wattage is 300, step up to a 2-ohm load and the available wattage is 600, doubling, hence no voltage drop as the load transitions from 4-ohms to 2-ohms. But add another 2-ohm load for a total of 1-ohm and now you see only 900 watts, where you would expect to see 1200 watts. The voltage has now begun to decrease due to the greater load on the amplifier. It should be noted that not ALL amplifiers reduce voltage output in the same manner. Not all amplifiers are designed and manufactured the same way.

I really wish amplifier manufacturers would drop the wattage ratings of their amplifiers and switch over to a maximum unclipped voltage output rating system. It would make things so much simpler.

So to answer your first question: No, the amplifier will supply 450 watts to your left 2-ohm door speaker and 450 watts to your right 2-ohm door speaker. 2-ohms + 2-ohms in parallel = 1-ohm total, where the amp is rated at 900 watts at 1-ohm, and 450 + 450 = 900

Originally Posted by Vangfrs

Aslo if I lower my gain that means I wont be pushing the jbl to its full potential? I dont want to blow the doors but if they're not being used then to me it's as if they already blew. If they did, it'll just give me a reason to change them to something better lol. You said the amp is overpowered, tho I dont care about the doors, would it blow the jbl?

Unfortunately, you can't use this mono amp to power both door speakers AND your JBL sub at the same time. The math simply won't allow for it. Use this amp for the JBL sub and it's a perfect match if you wire each of the subwoofer's voice coils in a parallel configuration to the amp and set the gain to match the head unit's RCA voltage output (probably about 4.4 volts being that it's a Pioneer). That's the potential of 600 watts to the subwoofer, exactly what it's rated for. Now on that note, if you drive the subwoofer into too much distortion by setting the gain control on the amplifier too high, or by boosting the BASS EQ too much, or by misusing the loudness control of the head unit, or by mounting the subwoofer in an enclosure that is too large for it, you could still blow the subwoofer. Personally, in my younger days when I was a novice, I burnt voice coils out on subwoofers due to underpowering and blew suspensions out by overpowering. Luckily those days are behind me and knowing what I know now, I still have my 25 year-old set of MB Quart separates and 23 year-old Orion HCCA subwoofer in perfect operating conditions.

So to sum it up:
Your amp can be used to power the door speakers, but you must be very careful.

Your amp is a perfect match for your subwoofer.

If I were in your shoes, I'd buy another smaller amp for the door speakers as I mentioned in my previous post, and use the PowerBass amp for the JBL sub.

I am assuming you're using deck power for the dash mids and tweeters?

[soundman98]

tldr:
it's possible, but a really really bad idea. you need either another amp, or a different amp with more channels.

and considering the context of this thread, no, an amp of that size cannot be ran off the oem amps power wires.

[Vangfrs]

Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86

First, let me explain a bit further. Since you have a mono amplifier, there's no bridging involved. Bridging is a term used in multi-channel amplifiers to "bridge" two channels into one to increase the output power available to a speaker. Since your amp is mono, that means it's a single-channel amp. Even though there are two speaker outputs, the positives and the negatives of those two speaker outputs are electrically and respectively the same points. For example, if you measure the resistance of the left channel's, positive lead to the right channel's positive lead, you'll see that there is 0 ohms of resistance. Likewise, you will see the same results measuring the negative leads of both outputs. They simply give you two speaker outputs for convenience and ease of wiring up multiple speakers. I noticed your amp is "strappable". That means if you had a second amp of the same model, you could strap the two amps together to further increase the power output available to your speaker(s). By the way, you'll want to set that DAISY CHAIN switch to MASTER while you're using just that one amp, the SLAVE setting is for use when you're strapping two amps together. Refer to your owner's manual for a further explanation of this feature.

According to the specifications of your amp, if you connect one 2-ohm door speaker to either speaker output, you have the potential of 600 watts available to that one speaker. Connect another 2-ohm door speaker to the other output, which will now present a 1-ohm load to this mono amplifier channel and you have the potential of 900 watts total, that's 450 watts per speaker. Why isn't the output doubling now as you add a second speaker? It's because you are now at or approaching the full load limit of the amp and the maximum unclipped operating voltage output on that mono channel is reducing as the load increases towards 1-ohm. You'll notice at a 4-ohm load, your available wattage is 300, step up to a 2-ohm load and the available wattage is 600, doubling, hence no voltage drop as the load transitions from 4-ohms to 2-ohms. But add another 2-ohm load for a total of 1-ohm and now you see only 900 watts, where you would expect to see 1200 watts. The voltage has now begun to decrease due to the greater load on the amplifier. It should be noted that not ALL amplifiers reduce voltage output in the same manner. Not all amplifiers are designed and manufactured the same way.

I really wish amplifier manufacturers would drop the wattage ratings of their amplifiers and switch over to a maximum unclipped voltage output rating system. It would make things so much simpler.

So to answer your first question: No, the amplifier will supply 450 watts to your left 2-ohm door speaker and 450 watts to your right 2-ohm door speaker. 2-ohms + 2-ohms in parallel = 1-ohm total, where the amp is rated at 900 watts at 1-ohm, and 450 + 450 = 900



Unfortunately, you can't use this mono amp to power both door speakers AND your JBL sub at the same time. The math simply won't allow for it. Use this amp for the JBL sub and it's a perfect match if you wire each of the subwoofer's voice coils in a parallel configuration to the amp and set the gain to match the head unit's RCA voltage output (probably about 4.4 volts being that it's a Pioneer). That's the potential of 600 watts to the subwoofer, exactly what it's rated for. Now on that note, if you drive the subwoofer into too much distortion by setting the gain control on the amplifier too high, or by boosting the BASS EQ too much, or by misusing the loudness control of the head unit, or by mounting the subwoofer in an enclosure that is too large for it, you could still blow the subwoofer. Personally, in my younger days when I was a novice, I burnt voice coils out on subwoofers due to underpowering and blew suspensions out by overpowering. Luckily those days are behind me and knowing what I know now, I still have my 25 year-old set of MB Quart separates and 23 year-old Orion HCCA subwoofer in perfect operating conditions.

So to sum it up:
Your amp can be used to power the door speakers, but you must be very careful.

Your amp is a perfect match for your subwoofer.

If I were in your shoes, I'd buy another smaller amp for the door speakers as I mentioned in my previous post, and use the PowerBass amp for the JBL sub.

I am assuming you're using deck power for the dash mids and tweeters?

Ok thats what i kind of figured I just couldnt explain it like how you did and I just want to say thanks for the help before it starts to get annoying.
So befoee i do decide to get another smaller amp, for the sake of repurposing and less clutter in trunk, my friend also has 1500watt adioupipe amp that he's willing to give me, would that amp then be able to then power 2x door woofer+jbl?
Yes deck is powering front, tweeter, and back speakers.

[Vangfrs]

Originally Posted by soundman98

tldr:
it's possible, but a really really bad idea. you need either another amp, or a different amp with more channels.

and considering the context of this thread, no, an amp of that size cannot be ran off the oem amps power wires.

So if oem amp wires can't be used, that means I would have to rewire new bigger gauge wires from doors to amp?

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Vangfrs

Ok thats what i kind of figured I just couldnt explain it like how you did and I just want to say thanks for the help before it starts to get annoying.
So befoee i do decide to get another smaller amp, for the sake of repurposing and less clutter in trunk, my friend also has 1500watt adioupipe amp that he's willing to give me, would that amp then be able to then power 2x door woofer+jbl?
Yes deck is powering front, tweeter, and back speakers.

no, that amp only has 1 channel output. you need 3-4 channels minimum for the purpose, and they need to be 2-ohm capable to keep using the stock door speakers.

Originally Posted by Vangfrs

So if oem amp wires can't be used, that means I would have to rewire new bigger gauge wires from doors to amp?

for the power wires. you can use the oem speaker wires, though i highly recommend changing them for aftermarket 14 gauge or smaller#(12ga, 10 ga) to better support the amount of effort that goes into installing an amp.

[FR-S2GT86]

Originally Posted by Vangfrs

Ok thats what i kind of figured I just couldnt explain it like how you did and I just want to say thanks for the help before it starts to get annoying.
So befoee i do decide to get another smaller amp, for the sake of repurposing and less clutter in trunk, my friend also has 1500watt adioupipe amp that he's willing to give me, would that amp then be able to then power 2x door woofer+jbl?
Yes deck is powering front, tweeter, and back speakers.

I second what Soundman said, with the addition of staying far away from any copper clad aluminum wiring if you do end up upgrading any speaker or power wiring.

And you're very welcome, sharing my knowledge and helping others is something I enjoy doing.

[Vangfrs]

Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86

I second what Soundman said, with the addition of staying far away from any copper clad aluminum wiring if you do end up upgrading any speaker or power wiring.

And you're very welcome, sharing my knowledge and helping others is something I enjoy doing.

Any suggestions on amp for door? And would I be able to slave it to the 900watt amp?