Scion PURE PRICE

[Obja]

Originally Posted by r4m3n

Don't forget the $1000 education rebate if you qualify. Sweetens the deal if you recently graduated or enrolled in a graduate degree program.

Aha yeah i'm 17... so that won't work xD

BUT THANKS FOR THE INPUT EVERYONE <3

[patchulaz]

Originally Posted by Obja

Yeah that's what i was trying to figure out. I want to pay $26,030 but the sticker is $26,530

I guess i'll stop being cheap >.<

there's probably $500 worth of BS accessories added (trunk mat, etc.)

[Flat Black VW]

Originally Posted by fistpoint

How is this for simple? Pure Price in a nutshell means you pay whatever is written on the sticker. Yes, you should begin laughing now...hysterically.

Toyota claims they were approached by customers over the years looking for an easier way of purchasing vehicles, citing the haggling process as an annoyance. Toyota, in its infinite wisdom, gave customers what they want by simply removing the haggling process! Uh...thanks, I think(not really).

To follow the rules a dealer simply has to have the price the same for all customers posted on the sticker, their website, and the price menu in the lobby. MSRP has nothing to do with Pure Price and is never mentioned once on their website. If they want to sell them for $153,499 they can.

Pure Price is akin to walking into any dealership for any model of car and simply paying the sticker. If you've been reading along you should now be fully aware that Pure Price is Pure Bullshit.

One day in the not so distant future you'll be able to buy the Subaru base model for a couple hundred over its invoice price, which in turn will be only a few hundred more($300-$400) than the MSRP of the FR-S. Right now there is an almost $1300 difference between the twins MSRP's, but since you cannot haggle the Scion it will be at a severe disadvantage when the BRZ isn't flying off the showroom floors anymore.

I've always thought PURE PRICE was the biggest BS I had ever heard when I first started hearing it on commercials. Commercials went something along the lines of "No more haggling! Price you see is the price you get!", what that says to me is "our salesmen are sick of people offering less than sticker and haggling the price down, so now you CANT!"

Never heard of people walking into a dealership, seeing 26,000 on the sticker, then the salesman saying, well actually you gotta pay me 32,000.

Never came across as a good thing to me.....

[viorent grip!]

Originally Posted by Propaganda

What annoys me is that I went to a mitsubishi dealership, talked with a salesman for a few minutes and got $5k chopped of msrp for a brand new 2012 evo x. That was just talking for a few minutes. I'm sure I could have gotten another $1k off if I stayed around a bit longer. A bargain for the car, as used ones with little miles were still up there in price. Scion? nope. $5k less and it's a lot less of a car. But don't get me wrong, it's a hell of a car. Still glad I went with it, instead.

It's because the Evo X isn't flying off of the shelves. The car has been canned by Mitsubishi as a 2013 model and a car sitting on a dealer's lot doesn't make them any money, they might as well do what they can within reason to sell it.

[Propaganda]

Originally Posted by viorent grip!

The car has been canned by Mitsubishi as a 2013 model

Really? I didn't know that. Gotta go look into that now

[Tbomb 25]

Originally Posted by r4m3n

Don't forget the $1000 education rebate if you qualify. Sweetens the deal if you recently graduated or enrolled in a graduate degree program.

....or the military rebate...

[HunterGreene]

One thing that is bothering me about this discussion is that most people seem to assume that the MSRP itself makes huge profits for the Toyota dealers. A few of my friends who have worked for the dealerships have told me that Scions see some of the smallest profit margins of any vehicles sold by Toyota. So, the price posted, if its at MSRP, probably wouldn't leave much room for haggling anyways if the dealer was going to make any sort of profit.

I don't know about other dealership regions, but there really aren't any dealerships promoting the Scion brand in this area, which may be due in part to the narrow profit margins from sales of the brand, which may be why some of the dealers are charging $9-10k over MSRP.

[kramerica_industries]

I worked for Toyota Financial Services (same as Lexus Financial Services) for 7 years, so I'd like to offer my thoughts on the Pure Price concept. (FTR - I no longer work for TFS, I was poached by Komatsu America a few years ago). Anyway, I spent many years working on the Customer Loyalty and Brand Management side of Toyota's finance company, and had lots of exposure to tremendous amounts of data, research, etc. So I just wanted to offer a few thoughts from those years. Take if for what you will . . . I'm by no means an expert in anything.

First things first to the OP: the sticker price is what you pay for a Scion, whether you buy in Chicago or New York or Los Angeles (idiot dealership aside adding crappy wheels, leather seats, etc.). We’re talking unified base pricing for any Scion model, with very few exceptions (i.e. special paint). As far as the 3.1 APR for 60 months – TOTALLY separate from the sticker price – subject to the risk of lending to buyer X vs. buyer Y, which is dependent on the individual buyer, not the manufacturer.

That said - market research supports evidence there are some advantages to the Pure Price concept (from the perspective of the manufacturer having same pricing within the same market, like Scion in the U.S.). I think it's important to consider that buyers often value very different things in the car purchase process. I'm not necessarily talking about the car itself. Obviously, those who peruse this forum tend to be much more engaged consumers than the typical car buyer (why we dub ourselves enthusiasts).

For example, some people value paying as little as possible for a new car and will do whatever it takes to negotiate what they feel to be a great deal. Some people value a smooth, minimal hassle purchase experience and are willing to pay more for such an experience. Some buyers value flexibility in financing options. Some buy whatever Consumer Reports says is a "Best Buy". Some buy what only what their father drove and would never drive anything else. Granted, I understand that such arguments are simplistic, but you get the point.

Remember GM's now-defunct Saturn brand? They also embraced a "Pure Price" (nation-wide same pricing) policy when the brand was developed and put to market in the early 90s. Most of us should be familiar with the many, many quality issues that plagued Saturn's early years. BUT, Saturn did a pretty darned good job of taking care of their customers who had these problems. The result? Saturn enjoyed significantly higher than industry average customer loyalty (read: repeat buyers). When surveyed, repeat Saturn buyers most frequently pointed to "customer service exceeding expectations" and the "no hassle pricing" when asked why they chose to repurchase a Saturn. Not quality. Not relaibility. Not styling.

Here's another good example of Brand Loyalty, also with roots in the early 90s: Lexus. At first, the luxury Japanese brand with a very attractive price point (read: high perception of value) met with some quality issues which were aggressively ameliorated. Customers were impressed with the Lexus commitment to unparalleled customer service (and the cars weren't too shabby either). Over the years, the Lexus brand positioned itself as a seller of very high quality, well-performing, ultra-reliable luxury cars. Lexus buyers don't negotiate as much (they don't need to), they lease more (to drive newer cars more frequently), and almost invariably have service work done by their dealers, thereby furthering the brand relationship. Today, Lexus has one of the highest loyalty rates of any car brand - and it's taken over two decades to do. Repeat Lexus buyers most frequently point to “great service”, “high quality,” “luxury brand image”, and “overall value” as reasons for their repurchase. Not price. Not performance. Not ease of purchase (but it’s pretty easy buying a Lexus if you’ve got the coin!).

So what's my point in all this? Simple: the Scion brand melds both the successful models I just mentioned above: clear, no haggle pricing, cars built with QDR in mind (quality, durability, reliability) and better than average customer service (Yes, yes, we've all had our dealer issues, but I'm speaking to the whole). Whether or not you like the Scion brand as distinct from Toyota, you must admit that the brand strategy has done exactly what Toyota wanted: to get younger buyers into their portfolio and build excitement and passion around the brand.

The brand retention rate for Scion owners is much higher than the demographic industry average - so they've succeeded in keeping Scion owners in the Toyota family. Younger buyers are fickle. I think that’s a good thing – it means they shop competitively – so when a young buyer remains within the brand, that brand is doing something right.

In addition, the demographic for Scion is, on average, more satisfied with the purchase process than competing manufacturers, one of the driving reasons being "ease of purchase" as related to consistent pricing along with “reliability”, “image”, and “value (think: standard feature content)”.

Personally speaking, my approach to buying depends on just what I’m buying. With my FR-S, I liked knowing that my dealer wasn’t going to try to financially rape me because the car was brand new and in high demand. I knew exactly what I was going to pay and what I was going to get for that money. I believe the FR-S to be a great value for the money relative to performance, styling, and quality (even with the issues discussed on this forum). It made the buying experience very smooth for me. And I have confidence that the issues some of us are having (DI chirping, A/C compressor tweet) with be addressed sufficiently by Toyota. After all, the GT-86/BRZ/FR-S is supposed to be a game changer – a new legacy born immediately upon its arrival. Will I think the same 20 years from now, looking back at the cars of my youth? I can’t be sure. But I sure hope so.

Best of luck with your new FR-S.

P.S. Toyota makes less margin on the sale of the Scion car itself vs. a Toyota. BUT - they have a much higher penetration into the accessories markets, where margins are much higher. So, what they don't make on the car itself, they make it upon accessories. Scion buyer gets to have a more unique car, creating an emotional attachment vis-a-vis brand identity, and Toyota builds a customer more likely to stay within the family. It works.

[wu_dot_com]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

One thing that is bothering me about this discussion is that most people seem to assume that the MSRP itself makes huge profits for the Toyota dealers. A few of my friends who have worked for the dealerships have told me that Scions see some of the smallest profit margins of any vehicles sold by Toyota. So, the price posted, if its at MSRP, probably wouldn't leave much room for haggling anyways if the dealer was going to make any sort of profit.

I don't know about other dealership regions, but there really aren't any dealerships promoting the Scion brand in this area, which may be due in part to the narrow profit margins from sales of the brand, which may be why some of the dealers are charging $9-10k over MSRP.

who thinks MSRP will leave huge profit?

most people online as well as off line, dealer or not all agreed that MSRP have a profit margin for the dealers. not big, but not small either.

so the hole point of no haggling for MSRP seems to be a fair concept. however, on the other side of the cone is greed. so sleazebag dealers will go around the good concept which guarantee a fix profit margin to create their own profit margin by adding BS add on.

what toyota should do is to mandate all dealers sticker can only be at MSRP or lower. all dealer add on is only available upon request. dealer add on should also be subjected to the MSRP or lower rule, and the labor hour for installation is clearly listed according to industory standard.

[Style]

The pure price (sticker price) is not the OTD price right? OTD includes license and taxes and registration.

[moniz]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

One thing that is bothering me about this discussion is that most people seem to assume that the MSRP itself makes huge profits for the Toyota dealers. A few of my friends who have worked for the dealerships have told me that Scions see some of the smallest profit margins of any vehicles sold by Toyota. So, the price posted, if its at MSRP, probably wouldn't leave much room for haggling anyways if the dealer was going to make any sort of profit.

I don't know about other dealership regions, but there really aren't any dealerships promoting the Scion brand in this area, which may be due in part to the narrow profit margins from sales of the brand, which may be why some of the dealers are charging $9-10k over MSRP.

BS! Their profit on their cars are no worse than any other car. Actually the FR-S margin is in inline with most compacts ($1100-$1500) which most dealers seem to have no problem giving up a few hundred dollars to snag a sale. Here in Canada the difference between invoice and MSRP on the FR-S is about $1400. Sure don't expect $1000 off, but the dealer can still afford to give up an couple hundred off if, they so choose. But with the demand for this car being what it is, that's very rare so at this point getting the car at MSRP is not the worst you could do.

[kramerica_industries]

Originally Posted by Style

The pure price (sticker price) is not the OTD price right? OTD includes license and taxes and registration.

Correct - OTD is usally referring to the vehicle cost PLUS the fees/taxes associated with the purchase, which can vary GREATLY from state to state. So the most fair basis of comparison is the cost, or selling price, of the vehicle.

[AKS]

Originally Posted by Style

The pure price (sticker price) is not the OTD price right? OTD includes license and taxes and registration.

Correct. I paid $24,930 for the car and OTD was $26,649.20 with TTL.

[rikdrt1]

Originally Posted by fistpoint

How is this for simple? Pure Price in a nutshell means you pay whatever is written on the sticker. Yes, you should begin laughing now...hysterically.

Toyota claims they were approached by customers over the years looking for an easier way of purchasing vehicles, citing the haggling process as an annoyance. Toyota, in its infinite wisdom, gave customers what they want by simply removing the haggling process! Uh...thanks, I think(not really).

To follow the rules a dealer simply has to have the price the same for all customers posted on the sticker, their website, and the price menu in the lobby. MSRP has nothing to do with Pure Price and is never mentioned once on their website. If they want to sell them for $153,499 they can.

Pure Price is akin to walking into any dealership for any model of car and simply paying the sticker. If you've been reading along you should now be fully aware that Pure Price is Pure Bullshit.

One day in the not so distant future you'll be able to buy the Subaru base model for a couple hundred over its invoice price, which in turn will be only a few hundred more($300-$400) than the MSRP of the FR-S. Right now there is an almost $1300 difference between the twins MSRP's, but since you cannot haggle the Scion it will be at a severe disadvantage when the BRZ isn't flying off the showroom floors anymore.

not exactly true.. to your statement re: One day in the not so distant future you'll be able to buy the Subaru base model for a couple hundred over its invoice price, which in turn will be only a few hundred more($300-$400) than the MSRP of the FR-S. Right now there is an almost $1300 difference between the twins MSRP's,....

Actually the invoice prices for the Scion FR-S is about 23.4k for the Auto (yes, a good friend at a local dealer showed me it) - what that means is that the pure price already has their markup in there -- sucks because they have pre-configured this idea to make sure they make 1250+ per scion car. which is way more than if you walk in and buy a corolla. it does make it easier for everyone and they way they can justify it - they dont need the dozens of salesmen to haggle with users so im sure they are taking all that into consideration.

so the BRZ is the same way, except today in 2012 nobody is getting it under msrp - which in theory subaru is making alot more money cause they can gouge and markup whenever they feel like it .. sucks.

so, dont over think it - same price all over the country - not bad !