05-08-2023, 09:52 PM | #911 |
Scott M
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Speaking of DocWalt, depreciation, and racing a generally competitive BRZ...
4 years into racing his old BRZ locally, my depreciation is probably zero. Sure, lots of that is COVID induced market craziness, but that's still cheap even if I'd been hit with 25% depreciation for a competitive, streetable race toy.
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05-09-2023, 08:19 AM | #912 | |
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Yeah, street class is a weird thing. It's meant to keep costs down, but truthfully you're not saving much compared to a comparable ST class to be at the pointy end of being nationally competitive. Wheels and tires are more or less even. Shock/coilovers again, not much different when you have people spending $4k plus on shocks alone for street class. Swaybars are the same, maybe adding a rear for some ST cars. There is the basic setup of a ST car. The difference is, there's more to go for ST as you want to gain more of an edge. As far as competition goes, it's highly car and locality dependent. Like near me there are 3 STR BRZs/GR86, and DS is a lonely class. I've learned to just run the Pro indexed class locally. Most people who show up in open class are multiple seconds slower, and that's just no fun. Whereas 2 of the 3 local clubs have very healthy Pro classes, and while the BRZ is not the car to have for STR, it's still good to compete with the best in each club.
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05-09-2023, 09:48 AM | #913 | |
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I saw you on the results from this past weekend and it's awesome to see my old car still be used and enjoyed!
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05-10-2023, 12:26 PM | #914 | |
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I'm not deep into the ways of classing like some of you are, but it makes no sense to me to have everything from an Audi S4 to a Civic Type R to the FT86 platform brothers/sisters all in the same class. That's a huge range of curb weights, FWD/ AWD/RWD drivetrains, 4/6 cyclinder engines, N/A and forced induction, etc all in once class. From my few years in Solo, DS and GS seem to by really odd. When I ran in FS I could at least see an idea of what was being attempted. Some of the other classes...not so much. |
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05-10-2023, 09:28 PM | #915 | |
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If anything, you could argue DS is more of a sports sedan/hatchback class with the CTR, Elantra N, GR Corolla, WRX/STI. The twins, even the 2nd gen, kinda don't fit when you look at the power level, RWD, etc. They fit more in CS in a way, which is sort of the Miata / S2000, RWD roadster-like class. I ran my performance pack BRZ in CS in 2020. Had a blast. I was right up there with the ND1's and S2000's. Had fun every week. Constant battles. Then got moved to DS with a better overall PAX, but get crushed by the 2nd gen and CTR. But all this classing is done via times on some magical course they rank them on. Personally, I feel the first gen is more of an ES car, but would likely be top dog in ES, bumping the older Miatas and MR2's out. The 2nd gen twin probably fits more in CS, but the ND2's have a edge in terms of times. ... so in a way, the SCCA is basically right with classing for the 2nd gen. But the problem with classes is that there's always going to be cars that are the top to have in a class. Or else you need a class for pretty much every car in a way. It would be almost impossible, but the better comparison would be for each car to have a PAX, classes get thrown out, and we're all competing against each other. Zero way to class every car though. Going on a total tangent, that's why I like street touring classes more - modifications level the playing field more in terms of autocross when tire and suspension choices make the most difference. Power becomes less of a divider and the modifications make cars more even (mainly suspension, camber, wider tires/wheels). Thus less classes needed. It's like 5 street touring classes vs 8 or so street/stock classes. It's why MemeStreet popped up here and has been spreading. People wanted to run, but didn't want to be last in classes on crap tires. We have like 10+ people running 400+ TW tires, or just really crap, old tires. They have fun and run sometimes clapped out cars, but sometimes newer/good cars with just terrible tires. It's a big "eff you" to the SCCA and their classing. End rant. I just really hate the whole classing thing. Which is why I made this video earlier this year
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05-11-2023, 09:07 AM | #916 | |||
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05-11-2023, 10:09 AM | #917 | |
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We have a Crown Vic Police Interceptor we call the "PAX Interceptor" my buddy bought for about $2k. Automatic, reliable as hell. Crap tires and they just hoon around in it. Sometimes it has 3-4 drivers per event and they write their times on the hood in sharpie. We had a highly modified Bugeye WRX with an EJ207 and all the good stuff... but on Tiger Paws or something for kicks. Very much reminds me of back in the day with my own WRX I was running all seasons or more regular summer tires. Went for fun and not really times. It was in STX back then, then moved to STH, but wasn't even on coilovers, but just STI springs. End of the day, we all do this for fun, but it's super easy to get caught up in being overly competitive. You do make a good point on going to street touring and then you find out people are running $5k coilovers, NVH is through the roof with poly bushings or solid camber plates, camber is -4 or more and not really daily driver friendly.
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05-11-2023, 11:39 AM | #918 | |
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Here I am running $6k coilovers (I did not spend nearly that much on them) with spherical bushings all around, and -4* of camber to get my ass handed to me nationally by Miatas. The camber doesn't really hurt much for street driving, but boy do I notice the spherical bushings.
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05-11-2023, 03:16 PM | #919 |
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$1500 second hand Megan’s, drove to work yesterday on my Bridgestone’s that I got 2nd with at Crows two weeks ago. Wheels were $500 from T_Rod, $1700 for the tune and header, $700 for the front swaybar, $2k for the diff, not much slower without the diff and fancy bar and nice header, could cut the build down to ~$3.5k to prove a point, amortize that over the ~6 years I’ve been autoxing this car semi seriously.
Going to switch to yokos tomorrow to finish them off at a local the weekend after, a hundred ish runs iirc. imho Street class should stay close to showroom stock as an entry point, parity will always be difficult (unless you pax every car individually) and even with cheap shocks and sways and wheel offsets and bump stops each desirable car will progress. If you want to cover warts, move up, the classing is already a decent pyramid, philosophy is reasonable rules as written just need a refresh for clarity and conciseness. Driving still beats the hell out of mods 99% of the time, changing my car could’ve bought me a few tenths of a second a few weeks ago but most of my >1.4s deficit was skill disparity. Edit; if Heitkotter can win with $2k coils, $300 front bar, a $1k header + tune, and <$2k wheels & tires I can at least trophy and go home happy with not much more investment. You can certainly spend more then $5k on an ST car but it’s not getting you much. Last edited by strat61caster; 05-11-2023 at 04:09 PM. |
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05-12-2023, 09:21 AM | #920 | ||
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At the end of the day, I show up for fun and I try to improve each season. However when looking at how things are run/organized, the classing is often a head scratcher...even for those of us not chasing trophies. Last edited by Desertnate; 05-12-2023 at 12:13 PM. |
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05-12-2023, 10:31 AM | #921 | |
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I haven't made the jump to STX because I keep thinking I need at least ~$3k RCE Tarmac 2's with camber plates, if not something like MCS and up in the $4-5k range. I've been thinking about it and something like $1800 RCE SS-1's or something similar with good valving, but less adjustable might be better. I don't want to get totally lost adjusting 2-way dampers, or having 30+ adjustment clicks to play with.
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05-12-2023, 01:21 PM | #922 | |
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I don’t like the KW stuff, twin tubes, useless support (KW NA that is, RCE is clearly better) but they can take you to the front. MCS cars ride great but a lot of people local to me are switching to shaftworks, their support is great and local to us. |
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05-12-2023, 08:35 PM | #923 |
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I was today years old when I realized SSC PAX is 0.807 and DS is 0.808. AKA, with Konis, Ebach springs, camber bolts up front, ~2.5 degrees up front, adjustable lower control arms AND 8" wide wheels, you need to go actually slower to get the same PAX score.
Again, all on a 225/45/17 RT660, but that's what I was on last year. Fucking christ the 1st gen is boned in DS. Going to STX the PAX is only 0.817, meaning you need to go exactly 1.1% quicker to maintain the same PAX position. This equates to exactly 0.5 sec faster on a 45 second course or 0.33 seconds quicker on a 30 second course. Given I'm on a 225 on stock wheels, moving to a 245 on a 9" wheel, plus coilovers offering ~4 degrees of camber up front and 2.5 in the rear with LCAs... I think ANYONE could go half a second quicker just from that. Let alone adding a header and tune to top it all off eventually. (This is just me convincing myself to go to STX.)
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05-13-2023, 08:50 AM | #924 | |
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