Best Braking Upgrade Progression for Daily Driving

[fredzy]

+1 for stock setup being left as is for any level of street activity. If what you want is bling (nothing wrong with that) get a set of stoptech cryo slotted rotors. $300 or so. They'll probably hold up around as well as OEM and aren't a legit downgrade like cross drilled. And they look proper.

I went round and round in the last few weeks trying to decide what to do for track day setup. Initial plan was just to do pads and fluid. Went all the way around the block considering multiple pad sets/multiple sets of rotors, BBK, you name it. I'm back to pads and fluid. I'm banking on driving for a week or two on the track pads cleaning off the rotors before I swap back to stock to avoid problems with deposits on the rotors.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by fredzy

If what you want is bling (nothing wrong with that) get a set of stoptech cryo slotted rotors. $300 or so.

This would be a total waste (even looks-wise) IMHO unless you are changing out the calipers at the same time to something painted that covers the entire pad.

On a related note, how hard/expensive would it be for Toyota/Subaru to make the stock calipers ones that cover the entire brake pad (and paint them)? Do they not do it to try to maintain desirability for the upgraded Brembos (or whatever) when they come out?

I don't track so stock pads/calipers are more than good enough for me. But even painted, they still look like crap (although better).

[Spektyr]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

The problem is it's insanely expensive to pack and ship boxes that large and heavy when you aren't a vendor.

I get that, but I'd bet most of those sellers would happily ship if you paid the cost. But I'm not even going to start to try to talk them into it when they say "local pickup only". If it's a good enough deal to make the effort of that lift seem worthwhile, it's probably too good a deal to be true.

And if they're even remotely willing to be talked into buyer-pays-shipping kind of deals, they probably wouldn't have said "local pickup only" to begin with.

It just confuses me: wheels/tires take up enough room that - if you're storing them properly - you're probably motivated to get them sold fast. I wouldn't turn away any buyer if it were me.

But I think the whole massive-camber gang are completely incomprehensible, so I fully recognize that different people have different perspectives. Everyone should be free to do what they want as long as they aren't messing with someone else's freedom. (I'll keep the full contact patch of rubber, personally. I like being able to turn and stop properly.)

[VoltsFRS2013]

My $0.02 is that the stock rotors are fine. My planned upgrade over the winter is the following

Motul RBF 660 Brake Fluid (2x 500ml) - $55
StopTech Stainless Steel Braided Brake Lines (Full Set) - $125
ENDLESS Brake Pads (SSM Full Set.) - $225
(Would also recommend Project Mu if nothing from the Endless Catalogue catches your eyes. Can't go wrong with CSG Spec pads either.)

You'd be looking in the ballpark of $450.00 for a full upgrade, retaining the perfectly fine stock rotors. I feel like this setup would be good for Street, Backroads, Twisties and occasional Circuit Driving. The rotors IMO are more of a bling factor than anything. Some argue that the slotted and drilled can actually have a negative effect over a flat face rotor. In my opinion, if you're not racing the car odds are the OEM rotors are fine. They're very good quality to begin with honestly.

Living in Virginia with the mountain twisties we have here, I have pushed my car incredibly hard. If you're not on circuit I couldn't imagine really reaping a realistic benefit from aftermarket rotors or a BBK or anything of that nature to begin with.

[DocWalt]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

This would be a total waste (even looks-wise) IMHO unless you are changing out the calipers at the same time to something painted that covers the entire pad.

On a related note, how hard/expensive would it be for Toyota/Subaru to make the stock calipers ones that cover the entire brake pad (and paint them)? Do they not do it to try to maintain desirability for the upgraded Brembos (or whatever) when they come out?

I don't track so stock pads/calipers are more than good enough for me. But even painted, they still look like crap (although better).

It adds weight and a lot of cost for the only benefit being "it looks better" to a few people.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

It adds weight and a lot of cost for the only benefit being "it looks better" to a few people.

So then how come the aftermarket calipers don’t look like the stock? Seems pretty unbelievable that they would add that weight and sacrifice performance just to look good for “some” people.

[spcmafia]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

So then how come the aftermarket calipers don’t look like the stock? Seems pretty unbelievable that they would add that weight and sacrifice performance just to look good for “some” people.

My thought on this is that, usually, when a vehicle comes with an upgraded brake system, it is usually accompanied by other upgrades (Springs, sway bars, bushings,etc) that would compensate for the increase of unsprung weight, and balance the vehicle out in terms of performance across the board. Whereas a lower trim version wouldn't really see an increase benefit unless accompanied by said upgrades.

[fredzy]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

This would be a total waste (even looks-wise) IMHO unless you are changing out the calipers at the same time to something painted that covers the entire pad.

On a related note, how hard/expensive would it be for Toyota/Subaru to make the stock calipers ones that cover the entire brake pad (and paint them)? Do they not do it to try to maintain desirability for the upgraded Brembos (or whatever) when they come out?

I don't track so stock pads/calipers are more than good enough for me. But even painted, they still look like crap (although better).

I agree those stock calipers scream "normal car" but upgrading calipers is generally big bucks. I'm weird and actually prefer a raw aluminum looking caliper. The AP 8350 calipers are the dream to me. And on the GR Corolla, I hate how the performance package ruins those perfect calipers with red paint

[DocWalt]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

So then how come the aftermarket calipers don’t look like the stock? Seems pretty unbelievable that they would add that weight and sacrifice performance just to look good for “some” people.

Because aftermarket calipers are quad piston (or more) and you can't see the pads.

and any painted calipers are going to be ruined with track use, proper track calipers don't get painted as fredzy commented on.


If you just want calipers for looks, cool. Accept that it won't have better performance than the stock calipers though.

[___LUNK]

Aren't the 4 pot WRX calipers like 2 lbs lighter than the ones we have stock? The sliders are heavy.

[RToyo86]

Originally Posted by Pat

I'm really curious to see what the CP pads are like to live with.

I was curious as well. They're 750usd which made my eyes water a little. Ferrodo Ds2500 are several hundred cheaper and are in the same category for usage.


I've been using stoptech sports on my gen one the better part of 3 years and 60,000-70,000km. Still seem to have some lift left in them as mostly daily use, with some canyon and 2 hours light track usage. The backing plate look like they're about to fall apart due to rust

[Pat]

Yeah, that's a LOT of money for pads, to be sure. I'm told with the AP 9660 (?) calipers they'll last a lonnng time. I guess I'll find out.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by RToyo86

I was curious as well. They're 750usd which made my eyes water a little. Ferrodo Ds2500 are several hundred cheaper and are in the same category for usage.


I've been using stoptech sports on my gen one the better part of 3 years and 60,000-70,000km. Still seem to have some lift left in them as mostly daily use, with some canyon and 2 hours light track usage. The backing plate look like they're about to fall apart due to rust

While in theory the DS2500 and CP fill the same role, the CP is quieter, less dust, and a substantially higher temperature tolerance, and provided similarly appropriate usage for each pad, more than enough longer life to justify the extra cost.

[LRNAD90]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

It adds weight and a lot of cost for the only benefit being "it looks better" to a few people.

Does it add a lot of weight? Essex claims their 299mm AP Sprint kit removes 20 lbs from the front end of the car over stock brakes (Assuming that is 10 pounds per side)..

"Saves 20 unsprung lbs. from nose of vs. OEM brakes"

Even the larger 325mm kit claims a 10 lbs total weight saving..

For daily driving, I agree there is probably no discernable benefit in braking performance with big brake kits, though its never a bad thing to lose unsprung weight..