Best mods for corner speed?

[Pat]

Originally Posted by Apelsin

You too man by your own logic. But don’t you find it ironic for all the talk about how coaching is superior to modifications, 95% of track day guys spend thousands on mods and zero on coaching.

And the other 5% go faster with slower cars.

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by Pat

And the other 5% go faster with slower cars.

yep. I’ve had some great coaches including CSG Mike and coaching is BY FAR the best thing you can spend money on to improve as a driver.
Driver improvement>car improvement.

[ZDan]

Still, you don't have to be a great driver to benefit greatly from knowing which mods are going to be most effective and practical for track usage. If anything you'll get more from coaching if your car is decently well setup vs stock. I don't really get all the "driver mod >>> car mod" comments...

Also worth mentioning that a LOT of the most readily-available instruction/coaching isn't all that great and can often be counter-productive... In my early driving "career" I got next to nothing out of the piss-poor "instruction" and coaching I got. At a BMW driver school at Mont Tremblant all my "instructor" could offer was "you're going too fast!" and "you don't know how fast you're going!" as we entered Turn 1 at perfectly reasonable speeds. Lotsa (internal) laughs...

[TommyW]

esdzx

Originally Posted by ZDan

Still, you don't have to be a great driver to benefit greatly from knowing which mods are going to be most effective and practical for track usage. If anything you'll get more from coaching if your car is decently well setup vs stock. I don't really get all the "driver mod >>> car mod" comments...

Also worth mentioning that a LOT of the most readily-available instruction/coaching isn't all that great and can often be counter-productive... In my early driving "career" I got next to nothing out of the piss-poor "instruction" and coaching I got. At a BMW driver school at Mont Tremblant all my "instructor" could offer was "you're going too fast!" and "you don't know how fast you're going!" as we entered Turn 1 at perfectly reasonable speeds. Lotsa (internal) laughs...

Well, it means learning weight management, etc is better than adding mods, especially sticky tires too soon. People are too quick to put on sticky tires. Low grip tires and you'll learn faster.

Good coaching comes from selecting the right ones.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by TommyW

esdzx Well, it means learning weight management, etc is better than adding mods, especially sticky tires too soon. People are too quick to put on sticky tires. Low grip tires and you'll learn faster.

Alas, this is another one I disagree with! I would much rather my students arrive in a decently trackworthy setup and on track-appropriate tires that can stand up to abuse and provide decent sliding grip. IMO this *improves* the learning curve relative to punishing not-up-to-trackdays tires with softish stock near-zero camber setup, which often begins to feel like a waste of time.

Good coaching comes from selecting the right ones.

Unfortunately the right ones are not likely to be readily available at the vast majority of track-day events.

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Alas, this is another one I disagree with! I would much rather my students arrive in a decently trackworthy setup and on track-appropriate tires that can stand up to abuse and provide decent sliding grip. IMO this *improves* the learning curve relative to punishing not-up-to-trackdays tires with softish stock near-zero camber setup, which often begins to feel like a waste of time.

Unfortunately the right ones are not likely to be readily available at the vast majority of track-day events.

It depends on experience. New drivers don't need mods if the car is already track capable beyond pads and fluid.(Miata, BRZ, Corvette, etc).

As far as coaching, it's best to seek someone out beforehand.

[gen3v8]

Add a lot of seat time

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Alas, this is another one I disagree with! I would much rather my students arrive in a decently trackworthy setup and on track-appropriate tires that can stand up to abuse and provide decent sliding grip. IMO this *improves* the learning curve relative to punishing not-up-to-trackdays tires with softish stock near-zero camber setup, which often begins to feel like a waste of time.

Unfortunately the right ones are not likely to be readily available at the vast majority of track-day events.

Those are the ones who don't need coaching as badly as the clueless ones!

And you're 100% right. There are volunteer/"i want a cheap/free track day" coaches, and professional coaches.

[Apelsin]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

You're still asking essentially the same questions 3 years later. How much have you improved in those 3 years?



Isn't it interesting that the same questions illicit the same answers from me? Perhaps, there may be a reason.

If you;re looking for confirmation bias, this is likely the wrong place. If you want real answers.... well, you got them. You don't have to like them, because it's not an easy pill to swallow, but perhaps, you should try looking from a different perspective.

I don’t know. I didn’t mean to ask the same question. I’m sorry if I did. I was really looking for someone to share their numbers. Something along the lines my lap times dropped 3 seconds when I upgraded my suspension.

[Apelsin]

Anyways I found ZDan’s answer pretty helpful for what I was looking for.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Apelsin

I don’t know. I didn’t mean to ask the same question. I’m sorry if I did. I was really looking for someone to share their numbers. Something along the lines my lap times dropped 3 seconds when I upgraded my suspension.

A does not result in B, with cars.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by Apelsin

Something along the lines my lap times dropped 3 seconds when I upgraded my suspension.

All other things being equal, coilovers/springs/dampers don't affect peak lap times as much as some people think.
I've seen a lot of examples when good drivers on stock suspension and 225 SX2s were on average just 0.5–1.0s per lap slower than similarly good drivers on coilovers and 245 SX2s.
That being said, a well set up suspension can be more predictable and can provide the driver with more confidence to drive fast lap after lap.
On the flip side, a well set up suspension might have such a balance that an inexperienced driver will spin in their first session.

Note that I said "all other things being equal", I want to stress that it includes camber.
There's a night-and-day difference in grip between factory and proper track alignment.

You may find https://86cup.us/calculator/ interesting.
Coilovers are 2pts there.
I don't know how much lap time differenced does 1 pt translate to, but eyeballing their records, and assuming Stock is -1pt and all Street records were set with 4pt builds, 1pt is ~0.5–1.0s per lap?

[Apelsin]

That was very interesting timurrr. Thanks for sharing! Seems like you came up with a great rule of thumb to translate mods into lap time improvements

[blsfrs]

Originally Posted by Apelsin

That was very interesting timurrr. Thanks for sharing! Seems like you came up with a great rule of thumb to translate mods into lap time improvements

Are you using any data acquisition? Garmin? Aim?

Santa is supposed to bring me a Garmin for Christmas.