Today I Learned...

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Spuds

I'd totally consider a "small" EV for running around town if I had a 3-car garage.

They're too fun to drive. It wouldn't last as "just for running around"

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Spuds

I'd totally consider a "small" EV for running around town if I had a 3-car garage.

i've also considered it. also considered buying a beat up old truck and a salvage ev and swapping the guts of the ev into it as well.

a few years ago, the used ev market was tracking to put me in that spot. i was making 1yr plans to put a soulless nissan leaf in my fleet as a commuter vehicle. they were starting to fall below $5k used, which was putting it right in that "sure, why not, and if it don't work, oh well" price range...

but then covid and shutdowns hit, the used market went bonkers, and i swapped trucks instead of chasing the ev market. sorta backwards, i admit. i had been planning on trading trucks in a longer 4-5 year time frame-- the ranger was rotting out, and was never gonna get any more valuable. part of me wanted to run it till the wheels fell off. but then covid pricing, i got about $3k more than i realistically planned to get out of it, and i saw the writing on teh wall that used vehicle pricing wasn't going to change within that 4-5 year span, so jumped when i could to make the change sooner rather than later. and more-so now with the gas price surge, the ev's are even more valuable...

i'm still watching ev's. still would like one for commuting duties, but the market needs to get back to previous levels first, which isn't likely for quite a while. it's shifted an ev more to the concept side of the line. it'd be nice, but doubtful the pricing will fall under what i'm comfortable with for quite a while.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by soundman98

nissan leaf

My impression, from limited reading, is that the first gen Leaf was a pos. That is, the battery had zero cooling and after a couple of years the range dropped significantly.

[Captain Snooze]

Australia does not have an incentive in place to purchase evs. The cheapest ev is AUD$53,990 which happens to be a second gen Leaf.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by cjd

My wife drives a Volt, but really liked the Bolt better. We've definitely taken a few trips where the BRZ wasn't an option (I'd have to change the AP Sprint brakes out to drive in winter storms) and charging would be a challenge (far enough off the beaten path to visit family) but at this point, the use case that sticks out is (pre-Volt) when she had to pick me up from the event where my first BRZ was wrecked. She'd already been out doing stuff, and would not have felt comfortable saying "oh, wait an hour so I can charge"... and that would still have been an option, but she might have waited till the drive back when I nearly passed out both trying to cough and discovering that my ribs REALLY didn't want to let me cough (I evidently had worse contusions as a passenger than the driver... maybe that makes sense, I don't know)

Not driving outside the electric range at all these days. Summers it's 50miles, winters 40ish.

Biggest challenge is non-Tesla charging options are still wildly inconsistent and often crappy or unavailable even when hardware exists.
But what really gets me is that the typical loud and obnoxious "never ever don't force that on me" are the ones that want more stoplight power to win those every-day races - something electric delivers in spades.
So no idea what the real issue is.

She would have wanted a larger SUV EV. They have much better ranges.
We have all sorts of charging infrastructure popping up all over around here. At they rate they are appearing it will just be another year or two and that part of the argument against them will be gone.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Australia does not have an incentive in place to purchase evs. The cheapest ev is AUD$53,990 which happens to be a second gen Leaf.

For a local commuter right now I think a new Bolt or Bolt EUV is the hot ticket (no pun intended) at the price they are selling for these days.

If I did my UAD->USD conversion correct, that would get you a new Chevy Bolt in the US, without any incentive. A quick inventory search shows a dealer near me with a Bolt 1LT for USD$27,000 out the door (includes sales tax and fees)

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

She would have wanted a larger SUV EV. They have much better ranges.
We have all sorts of charging infrastructure popping up all over around here. At they rate they are appearing it will just be another year or two and that part of the argument against them will be gone.

Bolt and the EUV range is @250 miles. I get the size thing though, some folks like bigger vehicles.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Bolt and the EUV range is @250 miles. I get the size thing though, some folks like bigger vehicles.

Well she has always wanted a 7 or 8 passenger and since this will be her "last" car before retirement I finally caved.
I am actually very impressed with the Ascent. It get's better mileage than her 2018 2.0 Outback, is about twice as fast from a stop (the 2.0 and CVT was abysmal for 0 to 60), very comfortably seats 7 and with the seats folded down has almost as much cargo capacity as some pickups. She got the Onyx Special Edition which has most of the chrome done in black and 20" black wheels (instead of 18" chrome) which looks all the world like a police vehicle and traffic actually moves to let you past!

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

She would have wanted a larger SUV EV. They have much better ranges.
We have all sorts of charging infrastructure popping up all over around here. At they rate they are appearing it will just be another year or two and that part of the argument against them will be gone.

Yeah, that's another thing that I don't understand... Why do people want SUVs. Though there are certainly sensible uses. But they also seem to be nearly the only option lately for an EV. Maybe some day there'll be an affordable, fun sports car like the BRZ...that's also an EV.
Infra is definitely improving, but so many problems with stations not working well, or at all. It'll get there. And I can't justify another IC purchase if I needed even today. Battery snafu aside, I do wish we'd just gotten the Bolt.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by cjd

Yeah, that's another thing that I don't understand... Why do people want SUVs.

The BRZ was the largest car I've owned. I never considered it a small car.
I have no idea how people get around town in SUVs. It is a known issue amongst local councils because car park spaces weren't made with SUVs in mind.

Funny story. Driving in Sydney in mum's Yaris. I squeeze in between two stationary buses at about 20 km/h. The car behind tries to follow and breaks a side mirror. That gave me a huge grin.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by cjd

Yeah, that's another thing that I don't understand... Why do people want SUVs. Though there are certainly sensible uses. But they also seem to be nearly the only option lately for an EV. Maybe some day there'll be an affordable, fun sports car like the BRZ...that's also an EV.
Infra is definitely improving, but so many problems with stations not working well, or at all. It'll get there. And I can't justify another IC purchase if I needed even today. Battery snafu aside, I do wish we'd just gotten the Bolt.

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

The BRZ was the largest car I've owned. I never considered it a small car.
I have no idea how people get around town in SUVs. It is a known issue amongst local councils because car park spaces weren't made with SUVs in mind.

Funny story. Driving in Sydney in mum's Yaris. I squeeze in between two stationary buses at about 20 km/h. The car behind tries to follow and breaks a side mirror. That gave me a huge grin.

Once upon a time in North America the huge 4 door sedan was king and the station wagon ruled as queen. You could put 6 to 9 people in most mainstream vehicles and travel for days.
Europe and Asia stayed tiny as they just didn’t have the space or travel distance of North America. For some odd reason Australia went the way of the UK and also adopted small cars.
As North America’s population grew rapidly through the 50s and 60s ( you could call it a boom I suppose) the sedans and agony got bigger and bigger until early 70s when they had reached an almost unsustainable size. Although there was an almost nonexistent group of single men and women that wanted smaller cars they did not make much impact on the buying public. Only the most diehard, one day to be called “Hipsters” would even remotely consider the trickle of small European or Japanese’s cars the made it there.
Then one day in the mid 70s some bad men in the Middle East decided they wanted a whole lot more money for their oil. At about the same time families start to shrink in size and average distance driven dropped dramatically.
Since those European and Japanese cars had improved in quality, got far better mileage and families no longer needed to sit 6 kids they started to sell like mad.
The American companies went “oh shit we need to do something fast” so they started to partner with those prior rejected companies and large sedans shrank to half their size and wagons just died off.
Eventually the sedans shrank so much that only a handful of expensive luxury brands had any room at all.
This did not last long. People soon were crying because cars were not big enough even with fewer kids. A couple of companies said “you want more room? Hold my beer.” and the beginnings of the SUV were born.
People loved them. They had the space and convenience of a large sedan or wagon without the cost or bad fuel mileage. They now rule the planet.
So when somebody says “I don’t get why they are so popular” they need to look beyond what they do with a car and see the bigger picture.
The real question for 99.9% of the car buying public is “why would anybody drive a car that only seats two and has zero space?”

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

and has zero space

When did quantum mechanics enter the conversation?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

When did quantum mechanics enter the conversation?

It has always been key. I understand that Henry Ford invented it with the Model T and then everybody stole it.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

People loved them. They had the space and convenience of a large sedan or wagon without the cost or bad fuel mileage. They now rule the planet.
So when somebody says “I don’t get why they are so popular” they need to look beyond what they do with a car and see the bigger picture.
The real question for 99.9% of the car buying public is “why would anybody drive a car that only seats two and has zero space?”

I understand half the form factor. It's a wagon with a lift kit.
The wagon makes sense. The lift kit I don't understand.
To be fair, I think the battery weight lets you drive EV SUVs hard without feeling tippy and otherwise changes the dynamics - and the extra height is helpful with battery layout. But otherwise they feel really crappy at highway speeds to me. The lift is to go off road. The truckishness may be to haul a trailer. But neither are reality for most, and slow is much safer for both too.

I can totally get behind confusion about sports cars for most. I just think the SUV should be similarly niche.