Potential Cause of rumored GR86’s blown engine? Seal packing(RTV) was peeled off

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

Correct, it MAY have caused damage. If Subaru/Toyota are smart they won't take that risk and they'll replace the engine in entirety.

Not a hope in hell that they will change out whole engines just because there was some sealant in the pickup.

[DocWalt]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Not a hope in hell that they will change out whole engines just because there was some sealant in the pickup.

Which is exactly why my car will be sold after it's fixed (assuming it doesn't blow up before a recall is issued) because I'm not having that "what if" hanging over my head.


IMO they've pretty well killed the car for me and I'm a HUGE fan of the car. It makes me really sad.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Robertw

Curious if Toyota or Subaru even care about the media shit storm regarding this issue, or if it even matters to their bottom line.

Worldwide they sell over a million vehicles a year. Even at a worse case scenario of every single 2022 engine failing that would be around .8% of their cars. The impact to their bottom line would be nonexistent.
They may have minor concerns over their image but again the target audience for these cars is so small it won't worry them much. We pay attention to the media shit storm but 99.999% of the public just don't give a rat's ass and will never see a word about it.

Now if it was Corollas or Camrys blowing up then...

[Opie]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

Any power mods? Stock tune?

No cats, full exhaust & tuned. Full mod list is here.

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I’ve never seen a low pressure warning light come on even when the car had no oil pressure and the rod let go.

Originally Posted by removedonut

The ECM in this car does not monitor oil pressure, nor is there an oil pressure sensor anywhere in the car. There is a simple switch that engages when there is absolutely zero oil pressure in the car. This requires A LOT to go wrong, and as mentioned you can have complete catastrophic engine failure without it ever coming on.

The '22's ECM indeed monitors it…the ’22 owner I’m aware of with an engine failure got a CEL and relayed it to Starlink as a Low Oil Pressure CEL…Starlink even contacted the owner asking if he needed assistance when it was triggered.

How effective it is as a warning to the driver may be debatable but it is certainly there…

Picture below from the '22 BRZ Owners Manual

Originally Posted by DocWalt

Correct, it MAY have caused damage. If Subaru/Toyota are smart they won't take that risk and they'll replace the engine in entirety.

This isn’t how the warranty works….replacing things that may have an issue makes no financial sense. The warranty is designed and budgeted to replace things that have had an issue as a result of defective materials or workmanship.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

Which is exactly why my car will be sold after it's fixed (assuming it doesn't blow up before a recall is issued) because I'm not having that "what if" hanging over my head.


IMO they've pretty well killed the car for me and I'm a HUGE fan of the car. It makes me really sad.

At this point it is all pretty much a tempest in a tea cup. There are several examples of blocked pickups but only a tiny handful of actual failures. We just don't know how far reaching it will be yet. The vast majority could be just fine or they all could be doomed eventually but there will need to be a lot more data before that is determined.
The bigger concern is their current stance on the issue. If they continue to deny warranty repairs due to "racing" and "abuse" then if this does get bad you will have a hard time selling the car to anybody that is actually following it!

[DocWalt]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

At this point it is all pretty much a tempest in a tea cup. There are several examples of blocked pickups but only a tiny handful of actual failures. We just don't know how far reaching it will be yet. The vast majority could be just fine or they all could be doomed eventually but there will need to be a lot more data before that is determined.
The bigger concern is their current stance on the issue. If they continue to deny warranty repairs due to "racing" and "abuse" then if this does get bad you will have a hard time selling the car to anybody that is actually following it!

Not every engine that has RTV in the pickup has failed, but every engine that's failed has had RTV in the pickup.

[DocWalt]

Originally Posted by Opie

No cats, full exhaust & tuned. Full mod list is here.





The '22's ECM indeed monitors it…the ’22 owner I’m aware of with an engine failure got a CEL and relayed it to Starlink as a Low Oil Pressure CEL…Starlink even contacted the owner asking if he needed assistance when it was triggered.

How effective it is as a warning to the driver may be debatable but it is certainly there…

Picture below from the '22 BRZ Owners Manual



This isn’t how the warranty works….replacing things that may have an issue makes no financial sense. The warranty is designed and budgeted to replace things that have had an issue as a result of defective materials or workmanship.

I'm aware how a warranty works. They're going to end up replacing engines eventually anyway since damage is likely to already be done...

It won't be during my ownership though. I'm not going to have that risk of being 1000 miles from home and the engine blowing up.






and the low oil pressure light triggers at super low oil pressure, it's a "your engine is fucked mate" light

[removedonut]

Originally Posted by Opie

The '22's ECM indeed monitors it…the ’22 owner I’m aware of with an engine failure got a CEL and relayed it to Starlink as a Low Oil Pressure CEL…Starlink even contacted the owner asking if he needed assistance when it was triggered.

I wouldn’t call a simple true/false check that oil pressure is greater than zero to be “monitoring oil pressure”. There is no oil pressure sensor and numeric values are not logged with the freeze frame data when a DTC occurs. There is a switch that engages only when the car has no oil pressure at all, which is effectively just a light that informs you your engine is now a very large paperweight.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

Not every engine that has RTV in the pickup has failed, but every engine that's failed has had RTV in the pickup.

Yes.
So which is cause and which is affect?
Does it just take RTV?
Does it take RTV and XXX?
Is the RTV a red herring and we are focusing on the totally wrong thing?
Can it happen on a track only even with no RTV?

There just simply is not enough data to say anything is "right" at this point no matter how many assumptions are being thrown around.
My career of 30 years has been built around correcting unexpected problems and I have not once been able to actually fix a thing based upon assumptions.
The situation get's even worse when there are people such as yourself (not a slam in any way) that are also emotionally involved and really, REALLY want something or somebody to focus on.

[DocWalt]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Yes.
So which is cause and which is affect?
Does it just take RTV?
Does it take RTV and XXX?
Is the RTV a red herring and we are focusing on the totally wrong thing?
Can it happen on a track only even with no RTV?

There just simply is not enough data to say anything is "right" at this point no matter how many assumptions are being thrown around.
My career of 30 years has been built around correcting unexpected problems and I have not once been able to actually fix a thing based upon assumptions.
The situation get's even worse when there are people such as yourself (not a slam in any way) that are also emotionally involved and really, REALLY want something or somebody to focus on.

I trust Subaru/Toyota designed it properly to not starve and die on track. The first gen was generally "fine" with the usage most second gens have seen. A few people have had them blow up just street driving.

From an engineering point of view, the RTV in the pickup is a *massive* red flag, it wasn't designed to deal with that restriction to flow. There's safety margin built in, especially since the 2nd gen pickup tube is so much better than the first gen's, but it can't handle one side of the box (and 1/4 of each other side) being blocked.

As I said above, they didn't fail on the engineering aspect, they sure did fail on the assembly.

Do I trust Subaru to make it right? Yes. Clearly we can't trust Toyota though...

[Opie]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

So much of what ninja said.

Sure it's still getting flow from the other 4 sides but it's not getting *proper* flow.

This is a fairly basic engineering problem and anyone that's saying the RTV isn't causing the issue is simply not understanding how much little things matter. If Subaru/Toyota thought they didn't need that side of the box to be open, they'd have left it closed.

Did you miss the part about Subaru designing the pick up with a 5 sided screenbox to ensure proper oil flow in case of a partial blockedge. This is a specific difference of the 2.4 series of Subaru engines vs any other Subaru engine that used the old style of pickup shown below.

It wasn't designed as a "need", it was designed as a precaution.

[Petah78]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

Which is exactly why my car will be sold after it's fixed (assuming it doesn't blow up before a recall is issued) because I'm not having that "what if" hanging over my head.


IMO they've pretty well killed the car for me and I'm a HUGE fan of the car. It makes me really sad.

I thought about selling as well but we have a 60k/5yr powertrain warranty. My thinking is that the car is a a sunk cost already, selling it now will = huge loss. Might as well send it hard in the next 4 years and hope it blows. If not, it will not likely blow at all. If it does blow up, you get a new engine anyways. But i guess with the strong used car prices, you can still make it out ok at this time but having said that, i do believe this gravy train is coming to an end quickly.

I agree, I love this car (love the Gen1 car as well but Gen2 just completes the package with the added power) but this really takes away from the ownership experience. There is really nothing on the market quite like it so no direct replacement even if i sold it (another reason for me to send it harder in the next 5 years).

[DocWalt]

Originally Posted by Opie

Did you miss the part about Subaru designing the pick up with a 5 sided screenbox to ensure proper oil flow in case of a partial blockedge. This is a specific difference of the 2.4 series of Subaru engines vs any other Subaru engine that used the old style of pickup shown below.

It wasn't designed as a "need", it was designed as a precaution.

I did acknowledge that they changed the pickup for the better.

They didn't design it for a full blockage of one side of the pickup. When the RTV piles up it blocks parts of the other sides of the box too. One small chunk of RTV won't matter at least.

[Opie]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

At this point it is all pretty much a tempest in a tea cup. There are several examples of blocked pickups but only a tiny handful of actual failures. We just don't know how far reaching it will be yet. The vast majority could be just fine or they all could be doomed eventually but there will need to be a lot more data before that is determined.
The bigger concern is their current stance on the issue. If they continue to deny warranty repairs due to "racing" and "abuse" then if this does get bad you will have a hard time selling the car to anybody that is actually following it!

This 100%

I know Subaru (& Toyota) will make it right if a defect exists. But determining the cause comes first.

I have a ton of first hand knowledge of how Subaru's, and warranties, work...and just because someone is screaming online about how they were wronged by a warranty denial...the manufacturer usually has the facts and data to support their decision. If the dealer made a mistake, the manufacturer will correct it.