Street driving Re: Torque dip

[DarthNads]

Originally Posted by whtchocla7e

The dip is a characteristic of the engine. Don't count on it being fixed anytime soon..

I was under the impression that the dip was from the injection system switching over modes... from econo-save gas mode to normal ass-kicking mode.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by ed209

no dummy, i enjoy going off idle up through the rev band and that little "dip" annoys the ever-loving fuck outta me. why is this concept so difficult to comprehend? it almost feels nearly the same as improper cam timing feels in other cars i have driven.

so... throttle stomping?

[Nepenthe]

Originally Posted by eriktherod

I guess we have different definitions of these terms. I find it hard to shift before 3-4k rpm in daily driving.

I guess so. Different strokes. In my opinion bringing it up to 3300 gives perfectly adequate acceleration for *street driving* -- downtown, residential, side roads, back roads, boulevards, and the odd freeway jaunt. I use the leisurely 2300 max for most of my *street driving* but that's just me. That extra 1000 RPMs before the dip gives that extra headroom if needed or wanted. I don't see the dip as any sort of problem.

Originally Posted by CBR600RR

Nanny driving my bike involves shifting before 8,000rpm

I shift my FZ6R at 3500ish most of the time. We are talking about *street driving* aren't we?

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

...learn to drive it like two different engines. Shift at 3.5K for around-town driving, keep it above 5K for hard driving...

That's a great way to put it.

Also, if you always drive like a madman (on the street), you become a little desensitized to the speed and power. When I dip into the throttle and revs in my car or bike, it surprises me and impresses me because I'm not there all that often. Same concept as cutting out added sugars for a month and then being overwhelmed with the sweetness of an apricot or strawberry.

Originally Posted by 7thgear

95% of street driving is done at something silly like 60 horsepower and 30% throttle

Exactly. 3300 and mild to moderate throttle pressure in this vehicle will nicely keep pace with adult-driven street traffic.

Originally Posted by ed209

i dunno how you drive, but this IS an issue and a serious one at that. i can't ever remember being this pissed off by a nuance like this one. selling a car like this is flat out unacceptable in my book.

You shouldn't buy this car.

The rev-hang and throttle delay in my last car were bigger impediments and ones that could actually be seen as flaws as opposed to an engine characteristic. Also, this car still makes more torque at the RPM range of the dip than my last car did in the same RPM range.

Originally Posted by russv

No sense taking it to high RPM and speed only to have to hit the brakes. Easier on the car, the brakes, and better gas mileage.

Yep -- this is *street driving* we're talking about after all.

Originally Posted by russv

I think also the automatic masks the torque dip somewhat as I haven't really experienced it.

You may be right about the masking effect.

[eriktherod]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

it can be readily driven around, but quit shifting at 2200 or I'm gonna reclaim your car for the good of the community.

I rarely shift before 4500 and only do so to avoid hanging above 3500ish for cruising.

Has anyone else noticed it takes a 6-4 downshift to accelerate around anything on the freeway???

A couple times I grabbed 5th and was just like :-((( needs more down shift

Yeah, my feelings exactly. It used to bug the hell out of me because the 6->4 downshift felt like it was difficult to get it into the gate. Fortunately, the shift knob replacement has fixed that.

[Draco-REX]

If I remember correctly, the 2014MY FA20 engine shouldn't have the dip. They are tuning it out using tumbler gate valves like the EJ engine.

[Razz]

The dip is caused by the intake manifold.
They have a new design that is suppose to improve the issue.

Should be available in the 2014 model.

[ruskymx]

Originally Posted by Razz

The dip is caused by the intake manifold.
They have a new design that is suppose to improve the issue.

Should be available in the 2014 model.

If that is the case, we should unite and push for a TSB and get the upgrade. Doubt it would happen though, but you never know, if our voices are loud enough.

Ruskymx

[Synack]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

^ drives a 2012 Mustang

LOL

i don't mash my throttle to the floor at every light, is that really so hard to imagine?

i feather the throttle in 1st, then 2nd, then 3rd, coast for a bit, put it in 5th, coast some more, feather the throttle, ohh time to slow down

or how about this, i get on the highway, put it in H and cruise for the next hour or so

occasionally when i'm out driving at midnight or something when the streets arn't packed with idiots i can open the car up a bit, but the 60 or 80km speed limit kinda takes the buzz out.


maybe out in boonie land where cops sleep and the roads go on for miles and miles without a single light in sight, but that ain't here.


when i want have fun with the car, i go to the track, and then it sees 7k all day long and i don't ever feel this "dip"

I really hate it when people act ignorant of the thread topic because they come in the thread and announce how glorious of a perfect law abiding, care inducing citizen they are on public roads. The OP is just voicing concern about how he drives, which is around 3-4000rpm, and what thoughts others have about it. The vast majority of us shift above 3500rpm on super short geared car, so this question pertains to a lot of people.

To add my personal input to the OP's question; I personally agree with you. If it's city, I try to shift at 4500-5000 because a lot of Texas drivers are animals and you have to do a lot of defensive-aggressive driving to avoid accidents and to even switch lanes without getting plastered and honked at. Highway driving is a bit easier with the torque dip because you have more room to get back into the better torque RPM's if you want to switch lanes. I tend to shift at 3500-4000rpm driving casually. And road trips 3000-3500. I hope I answered your question?

[Laika]

Originally Posted by Nepenthe

Just driving around and commuting to/from work, yes.

Spirited = 3300. Caning the life out of it = 6000 or 6500 I'd guess.

I hate to sound like everyone else but that's just not right!!!

Listen, I tried to hyper mile my car, shifted at about 2250rpm's. I did this for a whole damn boring tank. Next tank I just decided to drive like a normal commuter, and open 'er up when I could. I averaged 0.1mpg worse on that second tank. This engine doesn't care at all how you drive, it'll just consistently return amazing fuel economy. I love it. I encourage you to start enjoying yours a bit more too!

[ed209]

i just love how some of you people are fucking defending a glaring engineering oversight!

let me ask this another way... if you were building this car for yourself, would you rather it the way it is or without this stupid dip?

[Synack]

Originally Posted by Laika

I hate to sound like everyone else but that's just not right!!!

Listen, I tried to hyper mile my car, shifted at about 2250rpm's. I did this for a whole damn boring tank. Next tank I just decided to drive like a normal commuter, and open 'er up when I could. I averaged 0.1mpg worse on that second tank. This engine doesn't care at all how you drive, it'll just consistently return amazing fuel economy. I love it. I encourage you to start enjoying yours a bit more too!

I can easily get 28-30 city if I cruise around in each gear at 3500rpm. So you are correct sir.

[Kuzuri]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

I had to re-learn my shift points. Having driven turbo Subarus for the past 5 years, I ;earned to keep it in the 3K-4K range because that's where the turbos liked to live. But with the BRZ, I've had to learn to drive it like two different engines. Shift at 3.5K for around-town driving, keep it above 5K for hard driving.

this. if you want to drive hard it NEEDS to be 5k or higher...

[mclevin]

Would final drive affect this torque dip? Or just move it into a different rpm range

[Nepenthe]

Originally Posted by Laika

Listen, I tried to hyper mile my car, shifted at about 2250rpm's. I did this for a whole damn boring tank.

This engine doesn't care at all how you drive, it'll just consistently return amazing fuel economy. I love it. I encourage you to start enjoying yours a bit more too!

I enjoy it just fine. I like a leisurely pace, suits me, suits my girlfriend, and suits my commute just fine. Drivers around here seem to take it pretty easy. I feel better when I take it easy and just enjoy the ride. It does perfectly fine. When I want I can access the same performance as anyone else -- or ride my motorcycle if I really want to experience some acceleration. I'm glad we've each found our happy place with the engine in this car.

Originally Posted by ed209

i just love how some of you people are fucking defending a glaring engineering oversight!

This is an inexpensive economy car with some nice handling traits. I mean, you talk like we should all be angling for a class action lawsuit against Toyota and Subaru any day now. The car is fine. It dips down SO low that at its absolute trough it's STILL making more torque than the four cylinder engine with the same bore and stroke that my last car had at the same RPMs.

This is not the car for you.