2013 Turbo FR-S Valve Spring Recall

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by CedN

Have anyone actually had an issue with the valve springs? My car (a year before i bought it) got a new bottom end from Toyota after the recall "fix" that led to bearing issues.

No, zero, and as I've said here a few times, this recall was driven entirely by fear of litigation even in the face of the science - both theoretical and experimental - which clearly showed that the defective units, as expected, all failed within a couple thousand miles. Most failed right away. The crisis was over long before the recall had been issued.

My car is a recall candidate.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

No, zero, and as I've said here a few times, this recall was driven entirely by fear of litigation even in the face of the science - both theoretical and experimental - which clearly showed that the defective units, as expected, all failed within a couple thousand miles. Most failed right away. The crisis was over long before the recall had been issued.

My car is a recall candidate.

I think it is more a case that the Twins got caught up in an event that had little impact on them but was a bigger picture situation. There were something like 400,000 Impreza's and Crosstreks that were the bulk of the recall. The FB20 engines did indeed have many failures that occurred as much as 30,000 miles into ownership so when looking at that total number of possible issues the recall was fully warranted for them. If I recall there was several hundred reported.
on the recall site. On the other hand, the reported spring failure numbers for the FA20 was something like three.

The biggest issue came with the methods required to change the springs in each engine. The FB engine used a very noninvasive method that did not require pulling and resealing half the engine. The FA method, although completely reasonable for anybody that actually followed instructions, was totally different resulting in so many post recall failures.

The volume of other models most certainly had to play a part in the decision to recall. The officially stated reason was that "The vehicle could stall in traffic and present a hazard". This most certainly would be an issue if you had 400,000+ cars that could do it. Meanwhile both Subaru and Toyota totally ignored the 15,000 or so vehicles with bad TOBs that could stall in traffic and present a hazard for 6 model years! The numbers were just not high enough for them to feel a recall was warranted.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The FB20 engines did indeed have many failures that occurred as much as 30,000 miles into ownership so when looking at that total number of possible issues the recall was fully warranted for them. If I recall there was several hundred reported.

That is a surprise. I would love to see the failure distribution for those engines. I've seen it for the FA20 because I met and discussed the issue with one of our European friends away from the forum in confidence. The data and conclusion of the internal study fit textbook expectations perfectly. I can imagine one or two outliers for such a great number of total failures, though. Based on the ratio of failures to total in service, leaving it alone would still be a solid bet in any case.

[blsfrs]

I bought my FRS with an open recall. Had the engine rebuilt with comp parts. Turned in paperwork to Toyota. It took several emails and a few phone calls but they eventually sent me a check for $2400

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by blsfrs

I bought my FRS with an open recall. Had the engine rebuilt with comp parts. Turned in paperwork to Toyota. It took several emails and a few phone calls but they eventually sent me a check for $2400

That's some dedication. I have no patience for dealing with foot draggers like that. I'm amazed watching my wife in action with medical insurance people. She's relentless.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

That is a surprise. I would love to see the failure distribution for those engines. I've seen it for the FA20 because I met and discussed the issue with one of our European friends away from the forum in confidence. The data and conclusion of the internal study fit textbook expectations perfectly. I can imagine one or two outliers for such a great number of total failures, though. Based on the ratio of failures to total in service, leaving it alone would still be a solid bet in any case.

I had the link to the full NHTSC report once upon a time but can't find it now.
Yes the failure rate was still low even when you look at the total number of vehicles but must have been enough to spook somebody. They may have expected more failures than actually occurred. Since it cost them millions for the whole recall I highly doubt it was just minor precaution on their part.

[uDasBoot]

So my state does not require the recall to be done, however, if I do not get the recall done, am I screwed if they do go out? As in am I stuck with the repair bill? If so, what's the worse that can happen if they go bad? I'm leaning to not getting it done, but I don't want a hefty bill, if they do it, screw it up, free new engine for me. That being said, I'd rather not go without a car for who knows how long.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by uDasBoot

So my state does not require the recall to be done, however, if I do not get the recall done, am I screwed if they do go out? As in am I stuck with the repair bill? If so, what's the worse that can happen if they go bad? I'm leaning to not getting it done, but I don't want a hefty bill, if they do it, screw it up, free new engine for me. That being said, I'd rather not go without a car for who knows how long.

Maybe, maybe not -

My 2013 FRS is under the recall. I decided a long time ago just to ignore it. If it stops running, I'll go buy another car.

[x808drifter]

Originally Posted by TommyW

I believe it was IF THEY SCREW UP SEALING THE TIMING COVER they’ll destroy your engine. There are way too many instances of this happening to just not worry about it.

And to add insult to injury the moronic tech that did the work didn’t tighten down the clutch fork properly and while trying to nurse a car home with a knocking rod, the clutch went out in the middle of the freeway in heavy traffic. So yes some of these guys at the dealers can be pretty bad.

WTF are you talking about???
This is the 3rd time now that I am pointing out to you that my comment was directly quoting "they'll destroy the engine and there is no recourse"
Which reads as:
"If you do the recall they may use to much sealant and cause the engine too fail.

If that happens you are boned and the people who did the recall wont fix it"


I did not refer to anything else in that entire post but those 9 exact words.


I have now underlined and italicized the part of your comment that is BS and translated it to how it is interpreted in contact to this thread with matching underline/italicization.
Do you only read part of all the posts or something?

Problems with reading comprehension?
English not your first language?
^ Not jabs these are serious questions cause it feels like I'm talking to someone who isn't a native English speaker.

Originally Posted by uDasBoot

So my state does not require the recall to be done, however, 1: if I do not get the recall done, am I screwed if they do go out? As in am I stuck with the repair bill? If so, 2: what's the worse that can happen if they go bad? I'm leaning to not getting it done, but I don't want a hefty bill, if they do it, screw it up, free new engine for me. That being said, I'd rather not go without a car for who knows how long.

1: Yes

2: Gonna need a new engine most likely.

As was said before.
The engine has a higher chance of failing if you do the recall.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by uDasBoot

So my state does not require the recall to be done, however, if I do not get the recall done, am I screwed if they do go out? As in am I stuck with the repair bill? If so, what's the worse that can happen if they go bad? I'm leaning to not getting it done, but I don't want a hefty bill, if they do it, screw it up, free new engine for me. That being said, I'd rather not go without a car for who knows how long.

It is a game of probabilities at this point.
If a valve spring lets go the car is out of warranty and you will be responsible for the repair since the recall was not done. The damage caused by a broken spring is not likely to be extensive.
If you have the recall done there will be a limited warranty for the springs themselves but not for the overall job which includes the sealant. If you get a blocked oil passage due to sealant then you will probably spin a bearing and the whole engine is toast. Most (yes the majority of what was reported here) of the dealers will fix the engine but as we have seen there are some that will say it is not their problem. You are now on the hook for that cost if they deny it.
With the known numbers you are looking at about three spring failures from the recalled parts vs approx sixty blown engines from the repair. Odds are that you are at greater risk of a costly repair from having the work completed than just leaving it alone.
There are far more people that had the work done with no issues than lost their engine but I know that looking at the odds I personally would leave well enough alone and go with the very, very low risk of not having the work done.

[Opie]

Subaru issued recalls to 139,324 vehicles in the United States, worldwide around 440k +/- vehicles. This included some BRZ, Impreza & Crosstrek's due to an issue with weak valve springs installed in only 11% of those vehicles. Problem is, they had no way of identifying exactly which vehicles in that "batch" had actually received the faulty valve springs. In the US, 11% is less than 16,000 of the 139,324 vehicles that actually had faulty valve springs.

I wouldn't have the recall performed unless you had a valve spring failure. In my 18 years working in Subaru service...I only saw one actual failure...

My 2013 has 33k miles of hard track use, never had the valve springs replaced...

[uDasBoot]

Originally Posted by blsfrs

I bought my FRS with an open recall. Had the engine rebuilt with comp parts. Turned in paperwork to Toyota. It took several emails and a few phone calls but they eventually sent me a check for $2400

How much was the engine build? This intrigues me cause mine is boosted and I don't want it to blow or lose power from removing the turbo kit. If I can get a check like that then I'm willing to go for that.

[blsfrs]

Their prices have probably gone up.


https://elementtuning.com/competitio...r-wrx-fa20dit/